Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Rebel 10 is one hell of a program!!!!!

Author: Detlef Pordzik

Date: 12:22:19 10/25/98

Go up one level in this thread


On October 25, 1998 at 03:15:42, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>I sort of agree with you, except on the point of 'go out an buy it'. (now).
>
>>I bought Rebel7 & 9, and had the same situation that my hard disk would 'grind'
>>a lot during the programs operation, and sometimes the program would just exit
>>from windows without reason, at least for no reason that I understand.  Also,
>>the program's clock stops for several seconds when I exit book, and neither
>>side is moving & the mouse disappears.  I find this quite irritating!  4 different
>>computers now, and the Rebel programs (except, free Decade), demonstrate the
>>same behaviors...
>
>This is because you have started Rebel10 with a too big hash table. Just lower
>the hash table size. More info in the README file or on the Rebel FAQ page at:
>
>http://www.rebel.nl/faq.htm
>
>
>>I don't have these problems with any of my Windows chess playing programs, nor
>>with the TASC Base 'King' program, and (paradoxically),I don't have this
>>problem with Rebel Decade 2, also by Shroeder, which is a joy to play at its 2350
>>strength. (on a 200MzH, MMX machine).
>
>That's because Rebel Decade has a limited hash table size of just 512 Kb. It
>avoids the Windows swapping, see above.
>
>
>>Of course, I just play speed chess with these things, & occasionally analyze
>>some tactics positions, or a GM game with them. I almost never play any kind of
>>serious chess with them, and in fact I'm kind of the 'insane type', that
>>Fernando talks about in his review of Comet A96. - I want to have always, the
>>latest and coolest new program out there, which is certainly true of Rebel10,
>>and Junior5, and many of the other's that will be coming out during the next
>>months.
>
>>So we have here a paradox of sorts.  The Shroeder company gives away a
>>tremendous good program that is stable, and never crashes, and its free!
>
>>And it also continues to improve a tremendously complicated, superior,
>>entertaining, and yet flawed program on the other.  I wonder if they are as
>>frustrated by this, as I am?  Happily, they are working furiously on the first
>>windows version of the Rebel program, so when that comes out I will buy it
>>immediately. (Even though we'll have to worry about the usual bugs).
>
>Good you mention this.
>
>I guess we all are used to that? Except for chess programs I never buy
>first versions of complex software myself. And when I still do I realize
>that most likely I have to download one or two patches.
>
>It's (mostly) not the fault of software producers. In every released software
>are bugs that's unavoidable but the main trouble these days is the 10,000
>of different hardware combinations that is supposed to work without any
>problems with complex operating systems like Win95/98/NT etc. That's
>impossible. Bug-free software was possible with an easy OS like DOS.
>
>This is the price we all have to pay for progress. Windows 3.1 was a
>sensation but heavily bugged. Windows95 was another breakthrough
>but the very first versions were a real disaster. The last versions of
>W95 seems to run rock solid. Sometimes in exceptional cases I advice
>people to upgrade to a newer version of Windows (or to re-install)
>Windows and many problems people face simply disappear also with their
>other software.
>
>I am not sure about W98. My first impression is very positive. Any Rebel
>version runs rock solid on the first official version of W98 and the world
>wide almost freely distributed BETA-3 W98 version. To my own surprise
>you can even switch tasks (ALT_TAB) all DOS programs without any problems.
>Microsoft has done a great job and Windows is much more stabile now.
>
>Now to Rebel10, if there are bugs which are simply errors of Rebel we
>will fix them and make a patch. It only takes some time to investigate.
>
>I have read about complaints producers are miss-using customers. It
>is said they release a buggy product as a kind of beta-test and then
>make some patches available. I think this is not true at least not in
>the chess software area.
>
>It's more the fact that chess software (concerning features) has made
>a tremendous progress during the last years. Complex programs, more
>risk on bugs. This in combination with thousands of different hardware
>combinations, printer drivers, mouse drivers, video drivers, sound drivers,
>cdroms drivers and an operating system that is supposed to work bug
>free with all these possible combinations. Mission impossible.
>
>I personally hate to buy a program and then are forced to download a
>patch. But it is a tendency that unfortunately is hardly to avoid these
>days.
>
>Sofar the bad news. The good news about patches is that producers
>(if they are smart) add a few new features to patches. It's not so
>difficult to guess the why :-)
>
>- Ed -

I've read this quite a couple of times - lately and some time before -
especially in combination with the CM series - that prog authors, or
distributing Co'ds " missuse " customers as beta testers .
Excuse me, following the normal rules of commercial business, this is a sheer
nonsense to insist - which ever Co might be involved.
So I can only agree with Ed - noone'll try this by original meanings.

As I lately did a quite time intensive research on J.de Koning and all his
affilated products, I got lots and lots of informations how big the effort of,
in this case, MINDSCAPE, was, to present a stable prog - CM 5.000.

From Novato to Great Britain + Germany more than 25 people were busy on quality
ensuring and testing.
No doubts, that this didn't show the result - the users expected - BUT :

for my opinion, it ain't that problematic, if such a complex program has it's
flaws here and there - it's more important - how they react on the complaints of
the customer !
As far as MINDSCAPE is concerned - they're VERY fast on delivering patches to
correct the errors.
If I try hard - I can remember other Co's - who started a big rumble in the
jungle to debate on what is a to fix for free error and what not - instead of
showing respect to the customer + releasing a patch quicky....and for free.

So, up to today - in nearly 20 years in this scene - I haven't seen ONE singular
prog without errors.....

c/u

ELVIS



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.