Author: Eugene Nalimov
Date: 13:56:26 08/03/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 03, 2003 at 15:07:47, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >Those pages June 2003, looks pretty new to me :) Yes, web site contains latest Platform SDK, dated June 2003. You can look earlier PSDK, and trust me, those functions are there for some time... Thanks, Eugene > >>On August 03, 2003 at 11:12:15, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On August 03, 2003 at 06:14:06, Bo Persson wrote: >>> >>>>On August 02, 2003 at 18:22:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 02, 2003 at 09:15:26, Bo Persson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 01, 2003 at 14:13:18, Kim Roper Jensen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 01, 2003 at 14:00:18, Eugene Nalimov wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I see quite different result on AMD64 when Crafty is compiled by 64-bit Visual >>>>>>>>C. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>Eugene >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sorry for asking but what did you see ?? :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>A non-disclosure agreement in his employment contract? :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm sure we will see the numbers about 2 seconds after the compiler is released. >>>>> >>>>>Not really. What you need first is a windows version that can run the stuff 64 >>>>>bits native at opteron. >>>> >>>>Yes, of course. Do you care to make a guess on what MS is using their Opteron >>>>compiler for. :-) >>> >>>I guess they are working hard and basic problem is not only that m$ is 32 bits >>>in some respects (file systems and such already long period ago 64 bits in 1995) >>>but especially that their kernel stuff is written in assembly. >>> >>>That's one of the reasons why the kernel is much faster practically than linux >>>for applications (if i put of old diep versions which aren't NUMA 2 processes to >>>search at a single cpu machine then it runs *way* faster on NT, about factor 2 >>>to 4 than under linux kernel). >>> >>>So using their own compiler for their own kernel is not exactly what they can >>>do. >>> >>>A big challenge of opteron is that it is NUMA. >> >>That is not new challenge -- please go to MSDN web site and search for "NUMA". >>You may be surprised. >> >>Thanks, >>Eugene >> >>>I am sure m$ will be very happy supporting the AMD platforms. Competition in the >>>hardware branche is good for microsoft. So in the highest levels of the >>>organisations the x86-64 platforms will have a lot of support. >>> >>>Even if microsoft wouldn't want to support it, they still MUST support it >>>because x86 is history within a few years and we all will be running x86-64 >>>platforms only. Either with intel OR amd sticker. >>> >>>I guess even the biggest cpu amateurs will understand by now that intel is >>>developing their own x86-64 processor generations. Perhaps even giving it a 'p4' >>>sticker though it's an entirely new core. >>> >>>The only thing we do not know is *when* they will release their x86-64 cpu's. >>>AMD simply has advantage there now. >>> >>>We can very shortly describe the x86-64 architecture. Cheap. High clockable and >>>superior to everything out there including itanium. Especially superior to >>>itanium. >>> >>>I'm running at a cpu or 64 now (itanium2-madison 1.3Ghz 3MB) and they are great >>>for the highend but a joke even when compared to x86 for the average user. >>> >>>Intel plans to mass produce itaniums for the 'low-end' market have been put into >>>the fridge a long while ago. The only reason intel is continuing this processor >>>now (seemingly) is because they probably can't go back. Or perhaps they wait >>>until they have x86-64 cpu's available. >>> >>>How can GCC 2.96 without profile recompilation be just 15% slower than intel c++ >>>7.0 using profile information (prof_use) at the itanium platform? >>> >>>The problem of the itanium platform is they can't clock it high despite working >>>for years already at that problem, it is too expensive, and it is impossible to >>>write software for it. >>> >>>Even the current generations of supercomputers with itaniums that get delivered >>>are missing major software support for it. Like crucial fortran libraries. >>> >>>This where > 60% of the total system time of supercomputers goes to gflops used >>>by fortran libraries. >>> >>>If you add up the picture then it is a matter of time before the x86-64 will >>>dominate everything. >>> >>>However it is sad to realize that most likely the linux world will be too late >>>again. Despite that microsoft must convert their assembly libraries to new >>>opteron assembly, we know they must be very far already with that conversion. >>> >>>This where the linux plans to write a NUMA kernel for kernel 2.6 have been just >>>defined a few weeks ago. Not to mention the years it will take to carry out an >>>effective implementation. >>> >>>For those who still do not understand what i'm talking about. When you have more >>>than 1 opteron processor, so a dual opteron or even more processors, then it is >>>of crucial importance that the kernel can run locally on each kernel for the >>>jobs that can be done locally. >>> >>>Local memory at opteron is way faster than global memory. >>> >>>In fact the opteron asks for a cc-NUMA operating system which until recently was >>>only getting used by very big non-real time supercomputer systems. >>> >>>I would not be surprised if microsoft is years sooner in releasing a version >>>that works well than the linux community, despite that everyone will understand >>>that bugfixing assembly code is a lot harder than fixing a bit of C code. >>> >>>Best regards, >>>Vincent >>> >>>> >>>>Bo Persson >>>>bop2@telia.com
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