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Subject: Re: one vote for STAND QUIET from Mridul.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:33:31 08/28/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 28, 2003 at 11:09:19, scott farrell wrote:

>On August 28, 2003 at 10:55:20, Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I use qsearch as a method of reaching quiet and calm positions, not as a method
>>to eliminate all captures.
>>Hence , I also try stuff like forking moves , threatening and checking moves ,
>>etc - these may not be captures or promotions - but normal moves that can be
>>very threatening and dangerous.
>
>ONE VOTE FOR STAND QUIET FROM Mridul.
>
>I just score the pins/skewers etc in the eval, and it mostly throws out the
>position using alpha/beta instead. YMMV.
>
>I remember my engine before stand pat. It thought if there was a capture on the
>board it had to take it, and go through with the sequence. It played very funny
>chess for some time, and still managed to win lots, and played very very
>aggresively, making huge recapturing combinations on the board - very amusing.
>So if you dont put stand pat, how do you tell it that it doesnt have to take one
>of the moves in the move list, it can make no move instead (which when the full
>width search gets there, it can make a non capture move).

How can you not have a stand pat option?  Else you are _forced_ to play
the only capture, QxP, even though the pawn is defended.  The error rate there
is much higher than the error rate in classifying a position as "quiet" when it
is not.  If there are no good captures left, you at least know it is "somewhat
quiet" even if there might be a violent non-capture threat left.


>
>>
>>Of late I have been noticing that , standpat though it give a nice speedup , can
>>be very bad for my search - atleast the quality of output it produces.
>>Even though I dont allow standpat in case like when in check , etc I still see
>>the pv ending in positions where , due to standpat , I get the score of a lousy
>>position. Maybe need to tune up eval more ?!!
>
>I am interested to hear this, maybe I will try to remove, and other ideas
>instead of stand pat.

Don't tune up the eval.  Tune up the search so you don't give your eval
such positions to handle...


>
>>
>>The observations you made w.r.t passed pawn was also observed by me - maybe like
>>you said , I need to identify more patterns for passed pawn eval. But the fact
>>remains , you cannot find all of them. So maybe it makes sense to keep these in
>>qsearch ?
>>
>>Extensions have always only blown up the search tree for me - skewed up search
>>tree , where a whole bunch of useless checking moves or captures keep getting
>>extended , while worthwhile lines miss out due to that one extra ply search that
>
>>they need to prove they are the best moves. So I rarely extend now , even
>>checking moves are rarely extended , unless they are "good".
>
>Every time I touch my check extensions, the strength goes down. I now just leave
>them at extend 1 full ply when in check, and 1 full ply for single escaping
>move. I am interested in how you discern 'useless checking' from good checking
>moves though?
>
>> Recaptures - almost
>>never (depending on which version :) ) , have not tried singular extensions -
>>because I have not understood the implementation related concepts that well ,
>>nor have I found much of a documentation of how it could be implemented.
>
>I put recaptures in/out/in/out also, but have them in now, found someone's idea
>somwhere, only recap on the same square, and only winning captures. This seemed
>really really strong.
>
>My extensions do go crazy sometimes. In the end game of blitz, sometimes I see
>it only gets 4 ply full width, and 25 ply in extensions, but it trounces the
>opposing computer with excellent pawn pushes and checks - and wins most of the
>time only searching 4-5 full width plies.
>
>>I tried a search through ccc archives - way too many threads - but none of them
>>had something that would not have adverse effects on search - tried a few ideas
>>and miserably failed.
>
>tried this also, blew up the search too much.
>
>>Rest of the extensions - i threw them out of the window.
>>
>>My $.02
>>
>>Regards
>>Mridul



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