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Subject: Re: The need to unmake move

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 17:20:05 09/03/03

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On September 03, 2003 at 16:28:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 03, 2003 at 15:27:15, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On September 03, 2003 at 13:15:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 03, 2003 at 12:23:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 03, 2003 at 10:54:37, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 03, 2003 at 10:48:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I only see the need for communication when there is *somthing* to communicate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You answer your own question already. There continuesly is something to
>>>>>>communicate.
>>>>>
>>>>>Such as?
>>>>>
>>>>>Whatever it is maybe it can be redesigned by using a smarter message system.
>>>>>
>>>>>The parent thread doesn't need to know *what* the child thread is doing, it only
>>>>>needs to know what the child threads finds, if anything at all, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>-S.
>>>>
>>>>The only one who you are confusing is yourself.
>>>>
>>>>DIEP runs fine at any latency, but the speedup simply gets a lot less when the
>>>>latency goes up.
>>>>
>>>>There are many practical problems.
>>>>
>>>>You speak about shipping messages.
>>>>
>>>>When are you going to receive them. Check each millisecond?
>>>>
>>>>Or let the OS decide?
>>>>
>>>>The OS fires at 100Hz, so things like processes that are sleeping because of the
>>>>OS putting them to sleep (when locking and for 600 times they can't get the
>>>>lock) then you have a latency of 10 ms before the process is awake.
>>>>
>>>>You are aware of such problems?
>>>>
>>>
>>>No, because there is no such problem.  If you are running something else on
>>>the same CPU, then you will see that 10ms latency.  If that CPU is idle, then
>>>the instant the process is unblocked it will begin execution.
>>
>>Wrong, the 10ms latency is there to put something in the RUN queue of the
>>kernel. Though there is no technical reason to remove that 10ms for the OS
>>programmers, they are not allowed to do that, because that is violating
>>agreements with important software manufacturers which have written software
>>that assumes 10ms latency here and this crucial software will crash and cause
>>severe problems if it is no longer there.
>>
>>The OS helpdesk.
>
>It absolutely does _not_ work like that.  What happens is this:
>
>Processes are blocked.  As an interrupt comes in, a process gets moved from
>blocked to ready.  The temptation is to move that process from ready to run
>if it is higher in priority than the process already in run.  But that causes
>excessive context switching.  So, the process gets moved to ready and there
>it sits until the next 10ms timer interrupt fires, and _then_ the scheduler
>is called to move the currently running process back to ready, and the newly
>ready process (of a higher priority) into running.
>
>That is _all_ there is to it.
>
>If the CPU is idle, and the interrupt comes in, the process is scheduled
>_right now_, it goes from blocked to ready to run _instantly_.  No 10ms
>delay.
>
>There is no doubt about how that works.  And your explanation is simply
>garbage.  Ask some of the linux kernel guys.  Ingo Molnar is a good one to
>ask although Alan Cox will also answer.

The double origin3800 has 1024 cpu's. One partition (P7) is sized 512 processors
from which 500 can get used simultaneously to run a single program cc-NUMA.

So sorry to inform you that Linux doesn't run on any partition cc-NUMA > 64
cpu's.

IRIX does though.

With 10 braincells one could have known though that the SGI-Origin3800 is
running IRIX. I did at least, that's why i asked SGI instead and got back this
answer.

In fact way more was answerred than just this.

Best regards,
Vincent

>
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Vincent
>>
>>>I have explained this before.  You can read about it in any good O/S book
>>>that discusses this approach.  Your "conception" of the algorithm is flawed.
>>>
>>>>DIEP only can run well parallel at a shitload of cpu's thanks to statistical
>>>>chances that a scenario X doesn't happen much.
>>>>
>>>>That took 1.2 years fulltime work. Still tuning some details.
>>>>
>>>>There is a lot of communication. It is very easy to test this yourself.
>>>>
>>>>Just get a cheap network card. Say 100mbit and connect 2 pc's. Now let them do a
>>>>parallel search.
>>>>
>>>>Please report back to me when you have a speedup > 1.0, because initially you'll
>>>>be slower than 1.0 i bet.
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Vincent



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