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Subject: Re: To check or not to check, this is the quiescence question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:03:10 10/14/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 14, 2003 at 02:28:30, José Carlos wrote:

>On October 13, 2003 at 15:02:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 13, 2003 at 12:57:04, José Carlos wrote:
>>
>>>On October 13, 2003 at 12:03:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 13, 2003 at 11:31:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 13, 2003 at 09:29:47, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>there are very big differences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There isn't a big difference if you are only talking about the q-search.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you do a check, you have to get out and that extends.  If you extend
>>>>>on the check you don't extend when you get out and that extends.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is different in the normal part of the search, because if you extend on
>>>>>a check you increase depth by one now.  You might reach the q-search if you
>>>>>wait to extend when you escape check.  but in the q-search I don't see how it
>>>>>is a "big difference".
>>>>
>>>>You don't have to apologize for not knowing basic tree math, you're excused.
>>>>Had seen already in crafty code that it was done wrong there.
>>>>
>>>>Yet i had already posted years ago at CCC that if you extend when being checked,
>>>>that this is better than when giving the check.
>>>>
>>>>What delivers more cutoffs for the hashtable:
>>>>
>>>>A)
>>>>Re5+ (5 ply remaining)
>>>>Kf7  (5 ply remaining)
>>>>Rxa5 (4 ply remaining)
>>>>
>>>>B)
>>>>Re5+ (5 ply remaining)
>>>>Kf7  (4 ply remaining)
>>>>Rxa5 (4 ply remaining)
>>>>
>>>>If you can answer that question then you'll know the answer to the basic tree
>>>>searching question.
>>>>
>>>>Best regards,
>>>>Vincent
>>>
>>>
>>>  Do you cutoff in moves or in positions?
>>>  If you cutoff in positions, then you have:
>>>
>>>Extend check:
>>>
>>>A -Re5+-> B -Kf7-> C -Rxa5-> D
>>>5         5        4         3 (depth remaining)
>>>
>>>
>>>Extend out-of-check:
>>>
>>>A -Re5+-> B -Kf7-> C -Rxa5-> D
>>>5         4        4         3 (depth remaining)
>>>
>>>  So the only difference is position B. In the first case you store depth 5 in
>>>the hash table, in the sencond case, 4.
>>>  In principle it seems that extending checks would give more cutoffs due to
>>>hash table, but to get to position B you need a checking move, which would
>>>extend (increase remaining depth) in the first case, and not extend in the
>>>second.
>>>  The result seems to be that both will work the same, except for leaf nodes, as
>>>Bob pointed.
>>>
>>>  José C.
>>
>>
>>Don't fall into his trap.  In the q-search, which I _explicitly_ said I was
>>talking about exclusively, there is no "depth remaining" to extend.  His
>>comments are, as always, nonsensical.
>>
>>If we were talking about the basic search, then things are a bit different.
>>But I do it my way there for a reason.  It guarantees that I _never_ reach
>>the q-search when the side-to-move's king is in check.
>>
>>But we weren't talking about that case in what I wrote and where Vincent
>>responded with a completely random comment.
>
>  But I think he's also wrong for the main search, because for interior nodes,
>assuming as Omid pointed, a correct use of the hash table, the result must be
>exaclty the same.
>  I expect Vincent to understand it, but not to admit he was wrong for so many
>years.
>
>  José C.


Don't ever expect him to admit such a thing.  remember the golden rule:

"anything Vincent can't do or understand is impossible".

Then you will truly understand him and his many idiotic comments.



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