Author: Luis Smith
Date: 21:44:33 10/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 2003 at 00:33:11, Luis Smith wrote: >On October 30, 2003 at 22:21:39, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On October 30, 2003 at 17:58:29, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On October 30, 2003 at 17:10:25, Christophe Theron wrote: >>> >>>>On October 30, 2003 at 14:32:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>I don't understand why ChessMaster is allowed to use a Kure book (general.ctg) >>>>>in the SSDF testing. >>>>> >>>>>Last time this happened (with Gromit) it was specifically said by Alex Kure >>>>>that it was _not_ allowed to use the Fritz books to test anything other >>>>>than Fritz. So why is ChessMaster using it now? Did Kure give permission >>>>>(which I seriously doubt)? >>>>> >>>>>IMHO using the ChessBase learner for ChessMaster is also very questionable. >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>GCP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I agree to both of your points. >>>> >>>>If Kure does not allow one of its books to be used, it is unfair to let CM9000 >>>>use it. >>>> >>>>CM9000 is not a ChessBase product, so it is unfair to allow the engine to use >>>>the ChessBase book learning system. >>>> >>>>Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I'm extremely surprised that the >>>>SSDF guys do something that is clearly against the spirit of their list. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Christophe >>> >>>CM9000 is not a chessbase product but I think that the ssdf should be allowed to >>>test every combination of engine, book and learning. >>> >>>After all the interesting question is what is the best thing that people can buy >>>and if people can buy chessmaster together with Fritz book and get something >>>better than it is important to know it. >>> >>>SSDF have not enough time to test every combination and this is the reason that >>>they should prefer the programmer choice in case that he suggests something(I >>>guess that in this case Johan suggested nothing so they are free to test it in >>>the way that they want to do it) >>> >>>I think that book makers should not be allowed to forbid people to test their >>>book with another program. >>> >>>They earn enough from not allowing other people to use their book in world >>>championship or from the fact that people know that the ssdf leader used their >>>book. >>> >>>Chessbase also can earn money if people know that the programmer chose to test >>>chessmaster under chessbase because it means that people may buy both chessbase >>>interface and chessmaster. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >> >>Come on, Uri... >> >>Maybe you hope that some day the same favor will be allowed for Movei? >> >>It's ridiculous. The spirit of the SSDF has always been to test the programs >>"out of the box", unless the programmer himself suggests a change in the default >>setup. >> >>Here it's not an "out of the box" program that is tested, because it cannot be >>tested automatically. >> >>OK, I can understand that. >> >>But WHY would this program receive TWO UNFAIR ADVANTAGES? >> >>Why would the SSDF give an advantage when the author and the manufacturer of the >>program in question have provided no help to solve the issues of the book and >>the GUI??? > >IIRC Two versions of Chesstiger 15 were tested in the SSDF. Would you call that >an "unfair" advantage? Doubling the chance to top the list. You weren't >calling SSDF on that one Sorry I've gotta correct myself, only 1 version was tested. I could have sworn... > >Also note that Shredder 7.04 wasn't "out of the box" >It was a download patch, with perhaps different settings or bug fixes. Is that >an "unfair advantage". I would be suprised if Stephan reccomended(sp?) those to >Tony and SSDF. > >Crafty, Gromit, and other engines were allowed to use general.ctg, you weren't >calling SSDF on that one either. > >Besides rules and traditions change IMO this is a good thing. Most users of >these engines usually don't use default settings, so it makes sense to test the >popular ones. > >> >>If this is allowed now by the SSDF, I guess chess programmers do not have to >>write an opening book. Just write an engine and send it to the SSDF, they will >>add a GUI, book learning and a very strong opening book. >> >>In two years from now the Kure book will be standard and all the SSDF games will >>end in a draw because all games will be Kure book against Kure book. >> >>Instead of giving CM9000 TWO unfair advantages it should: >>* either not be tested at all >>* or be tested without opening (and without book learning of course) >> >>What's the next step? "Dear SSDF, I have written a chess program that cannot >>play the endgame, so please switch to Shredder when you reach the endgame stage. >>Thank you." >> >> >> >> Christophe
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