Author: Mike Byrne
Date: 20:37:44 11/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 10, 2003 at 23:34:02, Mike Byrne wrote: >On November 10, 2003 at 22:42:39, Russell Reagan wrote: > >>On November 10, 2003 at 21:29:15, Mike Byrne wrote: >> >>>It's not one specific move - it 's the pattern of moves - playing the exact same >>>moves as a program over a fixed number of moves. In real life, that does happen >>>over and over again in sequential games. It's the same method that a chess >>>program clone is identified. Computers will play the same move over and over >>>again in the same position. It's identifiable and repeatable- in fact every >>>program gives off a "signature" in every game that can be identfied. No human >>>will play 8 moves in a row in exact sequence of a program and then do that again >>>in the next game. Humans, GM or not, do not play like computers in that type of >>>sequencing (carbon copy 8 moves in a row non/opening/non end game - essentialy >>>random positions ) and then do it again the very next game. It may happen once >>>in a long while, it will not happen in back-to back games. >> >>That sounds good, but I have to disagree based on factual evidence. I decided to >>test out your theory, because it didn't sound logical to me. I assumed a player >>playing the same moves as the computer would be very common. So I downloaded a >>PGN from a tournament (just the first one I could find at TWIC, >>http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/ecc03.pgn), and tested a few games. Here are the >>results so far. >> >>Analyzed with Ruffian 1.0.5 >> >>Game 1: P. Svidler - S. Cicak >> >>P. Svidler statistics >>41 moves played >>Different move: 17 times >>Streak of 1: 7 times >>Streak of 2: 6 times >>Streak of 3: 5 times >>Streak of 4: 4 times >>Streak of 5: 2 times >> >>S. Cicak statistics >>40 moves played >>Different move: 21 times >>Streak of 1: 8 times >>Streak of 2: 3 times >>Streak of 3: 3 times >>Streak of 4: 2 times >>Streak of 5: 1 time >>Streak of 6: 1 time >>Streak of 7: 1 time >> >>Game 2: K. Fahrner - S. Cicak >> >>K. Fahrner statistics >>41 moves played >>Different move: 21 times >>Streak of 1: 11 times >>Streak of 2: 5 times >>Streak of 3: 4 times >> >>S. Cicak statistics >>40 moves >>Different move: 23 times >>Streak of 1: 7 times >>Streak of 2: 3 times >>Streak of 3: 2 times >>Streak of 4: 1 time >>Streak of 5: 1 time >>Streak of 6: 1 time >>Streak of 7: 1 time >>Streak of 8: 1 time >> >>These were the FIRST TWO GAMES that I tested, and in the first two games of the >>same event we have the same person with a streak of 7 moves and 8 moves that the >>computer would have recommended, had he been analyzing the game while playing >>online. Maybe if I had tested thousands of games and only found two of the same >>person, I would believe your theory, but these were the first two games I >>tested. >> >>Either you're wrong, or something very unprobable happened ;-) > >The unprobable does happen :>) > >take his next game in the database and tell me what if you get another 8 moves. >Are you excluding openings and endgame - I would liek to the see the 8 move >sequence - and which program you used. Also what is interesting is that it was the same player ... I would submit to you that is very unusual - but that is also why I said use games from the 1950 and 60's - prior to widespread use of computers, The current games can already be containminated with cheating that we don't know about
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