Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 22:18:24 11/21/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 21, 2003 at 18:46:21, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 21, 2003 at 17:52:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 21, 2003 at 10:35:20, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On November 21, 2003 at 10:25:25, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 21, 2003 at 09:39:35, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 21, 2003 at 08:43:28, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 21, 2003 at 05:32:12, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 20, 2003 at 23:57:50, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 20, 2003 at 19:21:56, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I guess if Crafty were given knight odds it would also have a fair chance at >>>>>>>>>winning, but what exactly does that prove ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Come on Amir... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Do you really believe that winning the WCCC with superior hardware is on par >>>>>>>>with winning the WCCC when given knight odds? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I thought the WCCC was about finding out what was the best chess playing >>>>>>>>computer, hardware and software combination. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Bob didn't say "I can get better hardware than you guys". He said "If I come >>>>>>>with big hardware and you don't, I can beat you". >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This is the same as needing a handicap to compete. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Is it the World Computer Chess Championship or not? It's not the World Software >>>>>>Chess Championship. >>>>>> >>>>>>If it runs on a computer, then there is no issue of handicaps. >>>>>> >>>>>>Your attempt at obfuscation is exposed. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Matt >>>>> >>>>>No >>>>> >>>>>Bob did not suggest that everyone use the best hardware but that Crafty will use >>>>>the best hardware that it can use when Junior is using only one cpu inspite of >>>>>the fact that it is able to use better hardware with more than one processor. >>>>> >>>> >>>>I didn't suggest a _thing_ about what hardware Junior should use. Why, exactly, >>>>do you think Amir is doing a parallel search? Do you suppose it has _anything_ >>>>to do with obtaining a hardware advantage? >>>> >>>> >>>>>What Bob suggested is giving Crafty an unfair advantage and not trying to find >>>>>the best combination of software and hardware. >>>> >>>>I didn't suggest any such thing. I answered the question "what US program >>>>would be competitive in this year's WCCC event." Crafty on good hardware >>>>is more than "just competitive" and that's _all_ I said. You have _never_ >>>>heard me complain about what hardware others have used in the past. Since >>>>my Cray days I have never shown up at a chess tournament with "the best >>>>hardware". Not even at the WMCCC events I have played in. And I didn't >>>>complain one bit that my hardware was slower. That's part of the events, >>>>IMHO. That's why this is called "computer chess". Otherwise we could >>>>all take our algorithms, sit down with pencil and paper and simulate games >>>>as was done in the early 1950's, and see which _algorithm_ is best. >>> >>>You did not mention the word Junior but you clearly suggest to have the top >>>commercial programs on a single CPU box >>> >>>Here are your words: >>> >>>"If you take the top commercial programs running on a single CPU box, and >>>Crafty running on a big Opteron box, I'd claim Crafty has at _least_ as good >>>a chance of winning as any one-cpu program, and probably better chances." >>> >>> >>>The top commercial programs do not play on a single CPU box and this is the >>>point. >> >>_wrong_. >> >>Hiarcs is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >> >>Rebel is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >> >>Tiger is a top commercial program. It only uses one cpu. >> >>ChessMaster is a top commercial program. It only uses one CPU. >> >>Mchess is a top commercial program. It only uses one CPU. >> >>Need I go farther? > >None of them compete in this WCCC >I also think that at least part of them are not considered as top commercial >programs > >Fritz and Junior and Shredder are simply better even with one processor. > >> >>The original question was, simply put "What US program would be competitive." >>The answer was "Crafty on big hardware." > >It is depdent on the definition of competitive but I think that even in that >case Junior or Shredder with their hardware have better chances to win. > >Uri They wouldn't have a chance, if Bob decided to use a supercomputer, like a top of the line Cray. How could they? Countless CPUs against a programme that can't use more than 8... no contest. I might be mistaken, but I doubt it. Terry
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