Author: stuart taylor
Date: 18:21:50 11/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 27, 2003 at 10:43:21, Bob Durrett wrote: >On November 27, 2003 at 10:02:13, stuart taylor wrote: > >>On November 27, 2003 at 09:24:35, Bob Durrett wrote: >> >>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:37:47, stuart taylor wrote: >>> >>>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:25:42, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 04:36:20, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 03:06:02, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 02:59:36, Gerald Wright wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The Top players in the computer chess championship are all capable of drawing or >>>>>>>>winning a match vs Kasparov or them in the top 10. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As long as 2200 ELO players can get a lot of draws >>>>>>> with safe and boring playing style the best comp >>>>>>> programs do not have more than 2400 Elo. >>>>>>> Kurt >>>>>>What you are saying Kurt does not make sense at all.A 2400 elo player could >>>>>>not draw Kasaprov under any circumstances.Please check the definition of ELO. >>>>>>Also your claim of 2200 Elo players getting draws is Contrary to my own private >>>>>>testing of many many games against 2200 Elo players. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Playing computers are _not_ the same as playing Kasparov or _humans_ whatsoever. >>>>>It is often easy to draw machines as Kurt suggests, winning is far more >>>>>difficult, unless of course you obtain a large "book" advantage, with the White >>>>>pieces. >>>>> >>>>>I've have found different ways to neuter computers, and so have many here who >>>>>buy programmes to play against. It's still even quite possible to bring them >>>>>down with carefully played K-Side attacks. By the time the comp sees it, it's >>>>>too late. >>>> >>>> >>>>In MY experience, it's not enough to do something before the computer realizes >>>>it, but that it is VERY CAREFULLY played and worked out, also! >>>> I've often got into positions where I think there could be a brilliant winning >>>>attack esp. kingside, but don't know exactly which one way will do it, if there >>>>IS one way. >>>>I often try, but it's usually not that one way, or at any rate, atleast one of >>>>the moves I make is not according to it. >>>>S.Taylor >>> >>>There is a way to produce a score sheet, of a game with a chess engine, where >>>the human wins. Simply play a game. Then go back to the first mistake and make >>>another move. Repeat this process as many times as is necessary to get the >>>desired result. This may not work every time, but it should improve the odds in >>>favor of the Human. Of course, when you publish the scoresheet, it's best to >>>conveniently forget to mention the take-backs. : ) >>> >>>Although this procedure may look bogus and like "cheating," it may be a good way >>>to find the weaknesses in the chess-playing program. The final scoresheet >>>should be useful to the engine programmer [and maybe to the opening book maker.] >>> I advocate doing this for the sake of improving chess engines. >>> >>>Bob D. >>> >>>Bob D. >> >>That used to beat all engines, but now, even that's not enough. The human would >>have to do something on the way to a brute force search manually, in order to >>try and prove his "brilliancy". >> If you have another computer running at the same time with the same, or a >>stronger program (hardware?), you can do advanced chess to get the right thing >>done. Atleast that would be a bit easier. >>S.Taylor > >I like your "advanced chess" idea but it would be necessary for the human >[better if a GM] to guard against being too much influenced by the other engine >[his partner]. That engine will, necessarily, suggest "computer moves." If the >human is not wary, he/she will fall into the trap of "buying into" the >computer's suggestions. It's sort of like a Satan and Eve situation, where the >chess engine plays the role of Satan and the human plays the role of Eve. If >the human is not careful, he may eat a "poisoned apple." : ) Then he might find good use for a Mackintosh! S.Taylor
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