Author: Odd Gunnar Malin
Date: 03:44:44 11/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 28, 2003 at 06:40:16, Gabor Szots wrote: >On November 28, 2003 at 06:12:43, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: > >>On November 28, 2003 at 05:00:49, martin fierz wrote: >> >>>just a short question: >>> >>>if i rip assembler stuff like popcount and firstone from the crafty source, but >>>the rest of my program is entirely different, am i doing something wrong? >>> >>>if i use the kogge-stone floodfill algorithms posted here by steffan westcott, >>>am i doing something wrong? >>> >> >>As soon as you start copying code from another source I think it is cheating if >>you want to participate in a competition with your program. >> >>>how much foreign code is allowed? >> >>None. >> >>> >>>cheers >>> martin >>> >>>PS: i use a table-based popcount, not crafty's assembly code. i use a modified >>>version of crafty's lastone. i don't use steffan's floodfill code, but i plan to >>>give it a try. >> >>This is not cheating because here you have learned an idea you want to test it >>yourself. >> >>There is a difference in what you want to do with your program. >>- If it is a private app. you can do what you want (no one can check). >>- If you want your app. to be public you have to get permision from the author. >>- If you want to participate in a public tournament you have to write it all >>yourself or add the orgin to your team (with permission). >> >>Some borderlines: >>- Fritz's (or others) booklearning code. In a tournament this isn't of any help >>but as soon as the competition is match play then the author of the code is also >>part of the team and the tournament rule decide if more than one engine can use >>it. ( I have to add that CB probably learned some of the learningcode from Hyatt >>(I think it was mention here a year back), but this is an article in a paper >>(ICCA) and not copying of codes.) >>- Nalimov's egtb code. Here too is he part of the team so if the tourney only >>allow an author to participate with one entry, only one entry should use his >>code. >>- Opening book, same as for the egtb code. >> >>The extreme case that someone seems to not think of as a clone is to start with >>tscp or gerbil and modify it. >>I think even when you have modified all the code you should still not be allowed >>in a tournament without the orgin's permission and added to the team. >>Basicly here you add a startrating of 1600-2000 for your engine in contrast with >>one who start from scratch where the engine would be below 1000 the first tries. >> >>BUT it is allowed to look into other code when you are learning, or hunting for >>ideas. This is probably the cause that the code is open. >>If you draw similarities with normal chess, you study theory books (papers) >>before a tournament and in some variants you want to look into other sourcecode >>(games) to see how this works in a real game. What you aren't allowed to is to >>bring with you these books and games when you write your own code (play your >>game). >> >>I would have wanted that authors that release the sourcecode had spend a litle >>time to write some pseudo code instead to show the unique idea and publish this >>instead of the code. This would have forced people to learn the code and test it >>througout before they can use it. >> >>Bruce Morland's site is an excellent sample of this. If you still don't >>understand his ideas after reading it several times you can take a peep at a >>sourcecode where the ideas are implemented. >> >>Another sample could be the three-four line Hyatt added after the booklearning >>stuff in ICCA 1, 1999 about positional learning. These few lines of words are >>all you need to implement positional learning into your engine. >> >>Odd Gunnar > > >It is impossible to write a chess program without using some knowledge already >invented. Even starting from scratch. All structural elements should be the >same, since basic principles (PV search, iterative deepening, etc.) are well >published. > >Should everyone ask permission of Chrilly Donninger if null-move pruning is >implemented in his program? > >Shall Albert Einstein give creadit to his predecessors who invented the >mathematical weapons upon which he based his general relativity theory? > >There is simply only one answer to the cloning question: don't publish those >parts of your source which you don't want others to use. After that, if the >source is still indentical, it was invented independently. > >Gábor Either you didn't read what I wrote, or I'm a bad writer. The later could very well be the case.
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