Author: Gabor Szots
Date: 03:51:03 11/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 28, 2003 at 06:44:44, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >On November 28, 2003 at 06:40:16, Gabor Szots wrote: > >>On November 28, 2003 at 06:12:43, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >> >>>On November 28, 2003 at 05:00:49, martin fierz wrote: >>> >>>>just a short question: >>>> >>>>if i rip assembler stuff like popcount and firstone from the crafty source, but >>>>the rest of my program is entirely different, am i doing something wrong? >>>> >>>>if i use the kogge-stone floodfill algorithms posted here by steffan westcott, >>>>am i doing something wrong? >>>> >>> >>>As soon as you start copying code from another source I think it is cheating if >>>you want to participate in a competition with your program. >>> >>>>how much foreign code is allowed? >>> >>>None. >>> >>>> >>>>cheers >>>> martin >>>> >>>>PS: i use a table-based popcount, not crafty's assembly code. i use a modified >>>>version of crafty's lastone. i don't use steffan's floodfill code, but i plan to >>>>give it a try. >>> >>>This is not cheating because here you have learned an idea you want to test it >>>yourself. >>> >>>There is a difference in what you want to do with your program. >>>- If it is a private app. you can do what you want (no one can check). >>>- If you want your app. to be public you have to get permision from the author. >>>- If you want to participate in a public tournament you have to write it all >>>yourself or add the orgin to your team (with permission). >>> >>>Some borderlines: >>>- Fritz's (or others) booklearning code. In a tournament this isn't of any help >>>but as soon as the competition is match play then the author of the code is also >>>part of the team and the tournament rule decide if more than one engine can use >>>it. ( I have to add that CB probably learned some of the learningcode from Hyatt >>>(I think it was mention here a year back), but this is an article in a paper >>>(ICCA) and not copying of codes.) >>>- Nalimov's egtb code. Here too is he part of the team so if the tourney only >>>allow an author to participate with one entry, only one entry should use his >>>code. >>>- Opening book, same as for the egtb code. >>> >>>The extreme case that someone seems to not think of as a clone is to start with >>>tscp or gerbil and modify it. >>>I think even when you have modified all the code you should still not be allowed >>>in a tournament without the orgin's permission and added to the team. >>>Basicly here you add a startrating of 1600-2000 for your engine in contrast with >>>one who start from scratch where the engine would be below 1000 the first tries. >>> >>>BUT it is allowed to look into other code when you are learning, or hunting for >>>ideas. This is probably the cause that the code is open. >>>If you draw similarities with normal chess, you study theory books (papers) >>>before a tournament and in some variants you want to look into other sourcecode >>>(games) to see how this works in a real game. What you aren't allowed to is to >>>bring with you these books and games when you write your own code (play your >>>game). >>> >>>I would have wanted that authors that release the sourcecode had spend a litle >>>time to write some pseudo code instead to show the unique idea and publish this >>>instead of the code. This would have forced people to learn the code and test it >>>througout before they can use it. >>> >>>Bruce Morland's site is an excellent sample of this. If you still don't >>>understand his ideas after reading it several times you can take a peep at a >>>sourcecode where the ideas are implemented. >>> >>>Another sample could be the three-four line Hyatt added after the booklearning >>>stuff in ICCA 1, 1999 about positional learning. These few lines of words are >>>all you need to implement positional learning into your engine. >>> >>>Odd Gunnar >> >> >>It is impossible to write a chess program without using some knowledge already >>invented. Even starting from scratch. All structural elements should be the >>same, since basic principles (PV search, iterative deepening, etc.) are well >>published. >> >>Should everyone ask permission of Chrilly Donninger if null-move pruning is >>implemented in his program? >> >>Shall Albert Einstein give creadit to his predecessors who invented the >>mathematical weapons upon which he based his general relativity theory? >> >>There is simply only one answer to the cloning question: don't publish those >>parts of your source which you don't want others to use. After that, if the >>source is still indentical, it was invented independently. >> >>Gábor > >Either you didn't read what I wrote, or I'm a bad writer. The later could very >well be the case. Hi Odd-Gunnar, I'm afraid it is me who is a bad reader. It looks as if we were in agreement here. Gábor
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.