Author: Eduard Nemeth
Date: 00:22:06 12/11/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 11, 2003 at 02:02:51, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >On December 11, 2003 at 02:00:03, Eduard Nemeth wrote: > >>On December 11, 2003 at 01:03:19, Harald Faber wrote: >> >>>On December 10, 2003 at 17:43:13, Eduard Nemeth wrote: >>> >>>>English with translator: >>>> >>>>Here 2 further games, newer date than test for DF8 and X3D Fritz. One of it is >>>>even a corr. game. Even in the 5-Varation mode sees Fritz 8,0023 (X3D Fritz?) >>>>not that one could beat pawn also on e4. The analysis of Shredder serves only >>>>for the comparison. I have these games already longer stored, now bring I her >>>>only between in it still. (I have however still more in stock if necessary?) >>>> >>>> >>>>[Event "XVIII Open Cappelle la Grande FRA"] >>>>[Site "?"] >>>>[Date "2002.??.??"] >>>>[Round "5"] >>>>[White "Tillet, L."] >>>>[Black "Jakubowski, K."] >>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"] >>>>[ECO "B22"] >>>>[WhiteElo "2180"] >>>>[BlackElo "2455"] >>>>[PlyCount "112"] >>>>[EventDate "2002.??.??"] >>>> >>>>1. e4 c5 2. c3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. dxc5 Nc6 5. Bc4 Nxe4 6. Bxf7+ Kxf7 7. Qh5+ Kg8 >>>>8. Qd5+ e6 9. Qxe4 d5 10. Qe2 Bxc5 11. Nf3 Bd7 12. Bf4 Qf8 13. Bg3 Re8 14. Ne5 >>>>Nxe5 15. Bxe5 a6 16. a4 b5 17. b3 h5 18. O-O h4 19. h3 Qf7 20. Nd2 Qh5 21. Rfe1 >>>>Rf8 22. Nf3 Rh6 23. Bd4 Bd6 24. Ne5 Bxe5 25. Qxh5 Rxh5 26. Rxe5 Rxe5 27. Bxe5 >>>>bxa4 28. bxa4 Rf5 29. Bc7 e5 30. Re1 d4 31. Rxe5 Rxe5 32. Bxe5 d3 33. Kf1 Bxa4 >>>>34. Ke1 Bb5 35. Bc7 Kf7 36. Bd8 Ke6 37. c4 Bxc4 38. Kd2 Kd7 39. Bxh4 a5 40. Kc3 >>>>a4 41. Bg5 a3 42. Bc1 a2 43. Bb2 Ke6 44. Kd2 g6 45. Ke3 Bb5 46. f4 Kd5 47. g4 >>>>Kc4 48. Kd2 Bd7 49. Ba1 Bc6 50. h4 Bf3 51. f5 gxf5 52. gxf5 Bh5 53. f6 Bg6 54. >>>>Bb2 Bf7 55. Ba1 Bg6 56. Bb2 Kd5 1/2-1/2 >>>> >>>>[D]r1bqkb1r/pp2pppp/2np1n2/2P5/2B1P3/2P5/PP3PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Analysis by Fritz 8.0023: >>>> >>>>1. ² (0.34): 5...dxc5 6.Dxd8+ Sxd8 7.Sd2 Ld7 8.e5 Sg4 9.Sgf3 b5 10.Ld5 Lc6 >>>>2. ² (0.34): 5...Se5 6.Le2 Sc6 7.Sd2 d5 8.exd5 Dxd5 9.Sgf3 Dxc5 10.0-0 >>>>3. ² (0.37): 5...e6 6.Lg5 dxc5 7.Dxd8+ Sxd8 8.e5 Sg4 9.Sf3 Sc6 10.Lb5 Ld7 >>>>4. ² (0.41): 5...Dd7 6.De2 dxc5 7.e5 Sd5 8.Sf3 a6 9.0-0 b5 10.Ld3 >>>>5. ² (0.50): 5...e5 6.Sf3 dxc5 7.Dxd8+ Sxd8 8.Sbd2 Ld6 9.0-0 Lg4 10.Td1 Lxf3 >>>>6. ² (0.56): 5...Sa5 6.Lb5+ Sc6 7.e5 Sd7 8.e6 fxe6 9.Le3 Dc7 10.Df3 Sxc5 >>>>7. ² (0.56): 5...g6 6.cxd6 Sxe4 7.Lxf7+ Kxf7 8.Dd5+ Kg7 9.Dxe4 Lf5 10.De3 h6 >>>>11.Sd2 exd6 >>>>8. ² (0.56): 5...Da5 >>>> >>>> >>>>r1bqkb1r/pp2pppp/2np1n2/2P5/2B1P3/2P5/PP3PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Shredder 7.04: >>>> >>>>1. = (0.00): 5...Sxe4 6.Sf3 dxc5 7.Sbd2 Sd6 8.0-0 Sxc4 9.Sxc4 Lg4 10.Le3 Dxd1 >>>>11.Taxd1 Lxf3 12.gxf3 >>>>2. = (0.16): 5...Se5 6.Le2 Sc6 7.Sf3 Sxe4 8.0-0 Sxc5 9.Lg5 Lg4 >>>>3. ² (0.29): 5...e6 6.Sf3 Sxe4 7.cxd6 Lxd6 8.Dc2 Sf6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Td1 >>>>4. ² (0.29): 5...dxc5 6.Dxd8+ Sxd8 7.Sd2 Le6 8.Lb5+ Ld7 9.Lxd7+ Sxd7 10.Sgf3 e6 >>>>5. ² (0.40): 5...Dd7 6.Sf3 Sxe4 7.0-0 Sxc5 >>>>6. ² (0.61): 5...Sa5 6.Lb5+ Sc6 7.f3 e5 8.Se2 dxc5 9.Lxc6+ bxc6 10.Dxd8+ Kxd8 >>>>11.0-0 >>>>7. ² (0.64): 5...g6 6.Sf3 Sxe4 7.Dd5 Le6 8.Dxe4 d5 9.Lxd5 Dxd5 10.Dxd5 Lxd5 >>>>8. ² (0.64): 5...Tb8 6.Sf3 Sxe4 7.Dd5 Le6 8.Dxe4 d5 9.Lxd5 Dxd5 10.Dxd5 Lxd5 >>> >>> >>>What about 5...Nxe4 6.Bxf7 again? Still a position which black should try to >>>reach? Personally, I doubt that... >>> >>> >>>>[Event "corr"] >>>>[Site "?"] >>>>[Date "1999.??.??"] >>>>[Round "?"] >>>>[White "Redmond, PC."] >>>>[Black "Bennett, Tony"] >>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>[ECO "B00"] >>>>[PlyCount "40"] >>>>[EventDate "1999.??.??"] >>>> >>>>1. e4 Nc6 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. d4 Nxe4 4. Bxf7+ Kxf7 5. Qh5+ Kg8 6. Qd5+ e6 7. Qxe4 >>>>Qf6 8. Nf3 d5 9. Qd3 Bd6 10. Bg5 Nb4 11. Qe2 Qg6 12. Na3 b6 13. O-O Ba6 14. Qd2 >>>>Rf8 15. Ne5 Bxe5 16. dxe5 Bxf1 17. Rxf1 c5 18. c3 Nc6 19. f4 Qh5 20. Qe1 h6 0-1 >>>> >>>> >>>>Redmond,P - Bennett,T >>>> >>>>[D]r1bqkb1r/pppppppp/2n2n2/8/2BPP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq d3 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Fritz 8.0023: >>>> >>>>1. = (0.03): 3...d5 4.exd5 Sxd5 5.Sf3 Lg4 6.0-0 Dd6 7.h3 Lh5 8.Te1 0-0-0 9.Dd3 >>>>2. = (0.25): 3...d6 4.Sc3 e6 5.Sf3 d5 6.exd5 exd5 7.Lb5 a6 8.Lxc6+ bxc6 9.0-0 >>>>Le7 >>>>3. = (0.25): 3...e5 4.d5 Sb8 5.Sf3 Lc5 6.0-0 d6 7.Lg5 Lg4 8.Lb5+ Sbd7 9.Sbd2 >>>>4. ² (0.44): 3...b5 4.Lxb5 Sxe4 5.d5 Sb8 6.Ld3 Sf6 7.c4 e6 8.dxe6 >>>>5. ² (0.34): 3...e6 4.e5 Sd5 5.Sf3 d6 6.0-0 dxe5 7.Sxe5 Sxe5 8.dxe5 Lc5 9.Sd2 >>>>6. ² (0.34): 3...h6 4.e5 d5 5.Le2 Se4 6.Sf3 Lg4 7.0-0 e6 8.Sbd2 >>>>7. ² (0.44): 3...Sa5 4.Ld3 Sc6 5.e5 Sd5 6.Le4 Sb6 7.Se2 d5 8.Ld3 >>>>8. ² (0.59): 3...a6 >>>> >>>>Redmond,P - Bennett,T >>>>r1bqkb1r/pppppppp/2n2n2/8/2BPP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq d3 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Shredder 7.04: >>>> >>>>1. ³ (-0.47): 3...Sxe4 4.Lxf7+ Kxf7 5.Dh5+ Kg8 6.Dd5+ e6 7.Dxe4 d5 8.De3 Sb4 >>>>9.Sa3 e5 >>>>2. = (0.19): 3...e5 4.Sf3 exd4 5.0-0 Lc5 6.e5 Sg4 7.Lg5 Le7 8.Lxe7 >>>>3. = (0.22): 3...d6 4.Sc3 Sxe4 5.Lxf7+ Kxf7 6.Sxe4 Lf5 7.Sg3 e6 8.Sxf5 exf5 9.d5 >>>>Se5 >>>>4. ² (0.40): 3...e6 4.e5 d5 5.Ld3 Sd7 6.Sf3 Le7 7.0-0 h5 >>>>5. ² (0.45): 3...d5 4.exd5 Sxd5 5.Sf3 Lg4 6.0-0 e6 7.Lb5 Df6 8.Lxc6+ bxc6 9.Sbd2 >>>>6. ² (0.51): 3...h6 4.e5 d5 5.Lb5 Se4 6.f3 Sg5 7.Se2 e6 8.Sbc3 Le7 9.0-0 >>>>7. ² (0.67): 3...g6 4.e5 Sh5 5.Sc3 d6 6.exd6 Lg7 7.Sf3 0-0 8.dxc7 Dxc7 >>>>8. ² (0.63): 3...Sa5 4.Ld3 Sc6 5.Sf3 d5 6.e5 Se4 7.Sbd2 Lf5 8.0-0 e6 9.Sxe4 >>>> >>>>Eduard >>> >>> >>>Also in this second example Bxf7 as response to Nxe4 is possible. Therefore I >>>doubt again that this is the best line black can play. Some funny guys say "I'm >>>wondering about the wanderking" (Ich wundere mich über den Wanderkönig) in my >>>club to such unnecessary (!) king actions. :-) >>> >>>BTW you got the same questions to your other recent post about a similar >>>position. You didn't answer. I wonder why. >> >>Do You cannotunderstand my message, or need You does not understand? >> >>I ask myself seriously Harald whether you my Message (see the answer of Peter >>Ackermann, where he explains it beautifully, further down in message) simply not >>to understand want? >> >>German: >> >>Ich frage mich ernsthaft Harald, ob Du meine Message (schau die Antwort von >>Peter Ackermann, wo er es schön erklärt, weiter unten in einer message) einfach >>nicht verstehen willst? >> >>E. > >Look here: > >http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?334781 > >. English with translator: The analysis ability of an engine (engine) is very important for the tournament player. It can to a program in such a way for example a position to set forward (under Fritz) and the program over a longer time the best courses and variants compute let. In the position analysis one can stop the bypasses of the variants arbitrarily, likewise the length of the variants and the threshold value (score). I set as only a small example, the following position from a material play (notation also further above in the Thread), to the programs forward Shredder 7,04 and Fritz 8,0023. Since I bring only one example, I indicated only 5 seconds as a time. Length of the variants = 5, Score + - 0,50 bypass in the 1. Move (move) = 3 (possible are far more variants) bypass into 2. Move (move) = 2 bypass in the 3. Move (move) = 2 bypass into 4. Course (move) =1 to the analyses: we see that Fritz 8,0023 as the best 3 head variants for black the courses (move) 5th dxc5, Qd7 and e6 suggests. The course (move) Nxe4 does not occur in the main variant. It would not occur also, if I had indicated, instead of three also 5 bypasses for the first course (move)! Such analyses however are useless for a tournament player whether some Freaks want to see in such a way or not! Shredder 7,04 analyzes the played course (move) as main variant also Nxe4! In addition still the courses (moves) e6 and dxc5. like that that is correct! I hope all Freaks, now understand my unjustified demand. And who cannot do that (that is my german: Ernst) should itself another hobby look for. Original message german: Die Analysefähigkeit eines Motors (Engine) ist für den Turnierspieler sehr wichtig. Er kann einem Programm so zum Beispiel eine Stellung vorsetzen (unter Fritz) und das Programm über eine längere Zeit die besten Züge und Varianten berechnen lassen. In der Stellungs Analyse kann man die Verzweigungen der Varianten beliebig einstellen, ebenso die Länge der Varianten und den Schwellwert (score). Ich habe als nur ein kleines Beispiel, die folgende Stellung aus einem realen Spiel (Notation auch weiter oben im Thread), den Programmen Shredder 7.04 und Fritz 8.0023 vorgesetzt. Da ich nur ein Beispiel bringe, habe ich als Zeit nur 5 Sekunden angegeben. Länge der Varianten = 5, Score +- 0.50 Verzweigung im 1. Zug (move) = 3 (möglich sind weit mehr Varianten) Verzweigung im 2. Zug (move) = 2 Verzweigung im 3. Zug (move) = 2 Verzweigung im 4. Zug (move) = 1 Zu den Analysen: wir sehen dass Fritz 8.0023 als beste 3 Haupt Varianten für schwarz die Züge (moves) 5. dxc5, Qd7 und e6 vorschlägt. Der Zug (Move) Nxe4 kommt in der Hauptvariante gar nicht vor. Er würde auch nicht vorkommen, wenn ich, statt drei auch 5 Verzweigungen angegeben hätte beim ersten Zug (move)! Solche Analysen aber sind unbrauchbar für einen Turnierspieler, ob das einige Freaks so sehen wollen oder nicht! Shredder 7.04 analysiert als Hauptvariante auch den gespielten Zug (move) Nxe4! Dazu noch die Züge (moves) e6 und dxc5. So ist das richtig! Ich hoffe alle Freaks, nun mein Ansinnen begreifen. Und wer das nicht kann (das ist mein Ernst) sollte sich ein anderes Hobby suchen. [D]r1bqkb1r/pp2pppp/2np1n2/2P5/2B1P3/2P5/PP3PPP/RNBQK1NR b KQkq - 0 1 Stellungsanalyse Fritz 8.0023: 5...dxc5 [5...e6 6.Lg5 (6.cxd6 Sxe4 (6...Lxd6 7.De2 0-0 8.Sf3² 0.50/10 ) 7.Sf3 Lxd6 8.Sbd2= 0.25/10 ; 6...dxc5 (6...Dd7 7.Lxf6 gxf6 8.cxd6² 0.66/10 ) 7.Dxd8+ Sxd8 8.Sd2² 0.41/10 ; 5...Dd7 6.De2 (6.Sd2 Se5 (6...dxc5 7.Sgf3 Dc7 8.De2² 0.47/10 ) 7.cxd6 Sxc4 8.Sxc4² 0.41/9 ; 6...dxc5 (6...a6 7.cxd6 Dxd6 8.Sf3² 0.69/10 ) 7.Sf3 a6 8.e5² 0.44/10 ] 6.Sd2 [6.Dxd8+ Kxd8 (6...Sxd8 7.e5 Sd7 8.Sf3² 0.44/11 ) 7.Lf4 Sxe4 8.Sf3= -0.03/10 ] 6...Se5 [6...Sg4 7.Le2 Sce5 8.Dc2² 0.34/10 ] 7.Sgf3 Sxc4 8.Da4+= 0.09/10 Line Stellungsanalyse Shredder 7.04: 5...Sxe4 [5...e6 6.Lg5 (6.Sd2 d5 (6...dxc5 7.Sh3 Le7 8.0-0= 0.00/10 ) 7.exd5 exd5 8.Le2= -0.15/10 ; 6...d5 (6...h6 7.Lxf6 gxf6 8.Se2² 0.64/10 ) 7.exd5 exd5 8.Lxf6= 0.05/9 ; 5...dxc5 6.Dxd8+ Sxd8 (6...Kxd8 7.Sd2 Se5 8.Le2± 0.79/11 ) 7.e5 Sg4 8.Sf3± 0.75/11 ] 6.Lxf7+ [6.Sf3 dxc5 (6...Lf5 7.cxd6 Sxd6 8.Ld5= 0.13/9 ) 7.Sbd2 Sd6 8.Ld5= -0.15/10 ] 6...Kxf7 7.Dd5+ e6 8.Dxe4= 0.02/12 Line Eduard
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.