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Subject: Re: Technical question regarding interface for CCT

Author: Omid David Tabibi

Date: 10:38:26 12/15/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 15, 2003 at 09:59:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 15, 2003 at 01:17:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On December 14, 2003 at 23:16:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 14, 2003 at 19:40:35, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 19:25:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 17:42:21, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 17:36:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 17:05:18, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 16:52:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:17:13, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 00:02:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:15:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:02:23, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:29:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:12:17, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 05:31:25, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if without Chessbase engines you'll have a better event and make progress,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I won't stand in your way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your statement sounds like the people who tried to hold on to DOS too long when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Windows (and other multitasking operating systems) were clearly the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Well, if without real mode you'll have better programs and make progress, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>won't stand in your way." You don't hear too many of those people these days. Is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ed Schröder the only one left? :) Clearly, multiuser and multitasking operating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>systems are progress over DOS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>45 participants is a heck of a lot more than 14. If there are 40 participants
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>instead, that's still a heck of a lot more than 14, with plenty of strong
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>competition. If we had this kind of participation along with the Chessbase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>engines, that would be great, but I'll take 40+ participants with no Chessbase
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>participants over 14 including Chessbase participants.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What was the average rating in Graz? What is the average rating in CCT?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>By this logic the tournament would have been even better with only Shredder,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Junior and Fritz.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The others just dragged down the rating, obviously.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>OK, let me put it this way: how many top programs participated in Graz? How many
>>>>>>>>>>>>will participate in CCT?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Having a chess championship without Junior/Fritz/Shredder is like having a
>>>>>>>>>>>>football worldcup without Brazil, Italy, Germany, England... (and if like CCT
>>>>>>>>>>>>you don't have any "drug tests", then Argentina will easily win, thanks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>Maradona :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If quantity is the only important factor for you, then you can take 100 free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>winboard engines, run a tournament on your computer, and crown the winner with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the world champion title.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Quantity is important, quantity means support, interest and recognition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Where was Tiger, where was Rebel, Ruffian, SmarThink, Crafty, Yace... in your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>little shootout?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Had they thought they had any chance to win the championship, they would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>shown up.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>That statement is so far beyond stupid...  it really doesn't deserve a
>>>>>>>>>>>response.  Drop over to ICC tonight or tomorrow night, try the quad opteron
>>>>>>>>>>>Crafty on for size in a game or two.  Then come back and make that statement.
>>>>>>>>>>>It's been hitting 9M+ nodes per second and is _not_ a pushover.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Brutus has been hitting 20M+ nodes per second in Graz, so what?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So if you think I have no chance of winning, hop over to ICC and show me
>>>>>>>>>how inferior I am on hardware that would be 1/4 the speed (or less) of
>>>>>>>>>what I would have shown up with had I made the WCCC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>_that_ is "what".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Did _you_ think that you had a good chance of winning?  Did you go?  What
>>>>>>>>>was the reason?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes, I thought I had reasonable chances of winning. It turned out that I had
>>>>>>>>heavily underestimated the importance of hardware (you can't beat any strong
>>>>>>>>engine running at 7M nps, when you are at 400k nps), but that is another story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>OK, then why would _I_ have chosen to not come, because I had no chance of
>>>>>>>winning, when I could do 9M on the machine I am using today, and would probably
>>>>>>>have been able to find a machine at _least_ 4x faster???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is my point.  Your basic assumption is stupid and wrong.  I played in the
>>>>>>>1989 WCCC event knowing I had practically no chance of beating deep thought
>>>>>>>with 16 processors.  But I _was_ there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Show me where I said "you will come to WCCC only if you think you have a chance
>>>>>>to win"? What I said was "if you think you have a chance to win you will come to
>>>>>>WCCC". You surely know enough about logics to know that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A -> B
>>>>>>
>>>>>>does not necessarily mean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    B -> A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>:)
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes I do.  However, your implication was quite clear...
>>>>>
>>>>>    Had they thought they had any chance to win the championship, they would
>>>>>    have shown up.
>>>>>
>>>>>Turn it around:
>>>>>
>>>>>    they would have shown up had they thought they had any chance to win the
>>>>>    championship.
>>>>>
>>>>>certainly directly implies
>>>>>
>>>>>    They didn't think they had any chance to win so they didn't show up.
>>>>
>>>>Correct.
>>>>
>>>
>>>OK.  Back to my original point.  "your statement is stupid."
>>>
>>>I _certainly_ would have had a chance to win.  And not that bad a chance,
>>>based on results I have been seeing with this quad opteron.
>>>
>>>So believe what you want.  But don't try to read my mind.  You simply
>>>aren't up to the task...
>>>
>>>I've explained why I didn't go.  The explanation _still_ stands.
>>>
>>>And I don't see why you started the ramble about mis-interpreting your
>>>statement, when I clearly did not, and you could see that it was not
>>>mis-interpreted either...
>>
>>Quote from you:
>>
>>"I played in the 1989 WCCC event knowing I had practically no chance of beating
>>deep thought with 16 processors.  But I _was_ there."
>>
>>You gave this as an example of:
>>
>>    (no winning chances) AND (participation)       (1)
>
>OK.  which perfectly refutes your claim.  I don't see your point
>here since you are simply reinforcing mine...  I play when I can,
>not because I think I will win.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>in order contradict what I said, which was
>>
>>    (winning chances) -> (participation)           (2)
>>
>>I fail to see how (1) contradicts (2).
>>
>>In other words, you tried to contradict
>>
>>    A -> B
>>
>>by giving the example
>>
>>    ~A and B
>
>Again, that is semantic nonsense.  You said that we don't go because we
>don't think we have a chance to win.  I said I did go knowing I didn't have
>a chance to win.
>
>Is that so hard to follow?

Oh my, how did you pass your logics exam?

Enough is enough. I refuse to continue this discussion as long as you refuse to
understand basic logic.


>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Word games don't cut it here.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your statement _was_ out of line.
>>>>>
>>>>>Simple semantic tricks don't get you out of that so easily.



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