Author: martin fierz
Date: 02:14:51 12/26/03
Go up one level in this thread
[snip] >Here is the question you have to answer: "what engine will "notice and inform >you about a 3-fold repetition" but not intend to claim it? The answer is none. which doesn't mean that it *could* do so. e.g. i just played a game which ended in a 3-fold repetition, and i noticed it in my mind before claiming the draw. the engine might even output a line like "37. Be3+ would be a 3-fold repetition" and then think about whether it really wants to do this. >>I'm not talking about a program which has the bad position and is happy to draw >>(not about the Jonny case anymore, but more general), but I'm talking about the >>program who has the much *better* position, but couldn't avoid the repetition. >>Now, how does this program *only inform* the operator that is has spotted the >>repetition, but not claim at the same time? > > >That is a circular and pointless argument. IE the program repeated for the >second time and couldn't avoid it. If it can't avoid the 3rd repetition >either, then what possible point is there to continue, since it also won't >be able to avoid the 4th, or the 5th, if it couldn't avoid the 3rd. This >seems to be based on a humans ability to overlook the obvious (the repetition) >and give you another chance. Computers won't overlook anything, and if you >think you have winning chances, you vary before the 3rd repetition to keep the >game alive. That is the _only_ way to play. And it is certainly the way the >tree search handles this... you can imagine different scenarios if you really want :-) e.g. say i programmed my engine to think deeply after a 2fold repetition, to make sure that by playing it's next move which will allow the opponent to claim a draw it is not making a mistake (incidentally, humans who are aware that they would be giving the opponent the opportunity to draw would do that). so my program thinks over that move for an hour and has only a few minutes left on the clock. then, my opponent's program decides to avoid the repetition because i have little time left on my clock, i.e. it can avoid the repetition but end up in an objectively bad position, but it's speculating on my lack of time (humans do that too). using a contempt factor which adjusts itself according to the opponent's remaining time can produce such behavior. i think mike is quite right. the rules are too ambiguous on this point and should be changed. what if i use a pop-up box in my program with informational purpose? i could have one which says "i claim a draw" and one which says "FYI: i could claim a draw here if i wanted" - since i might want my program to show this so that i see that it knows. what if my pop-up texts were not quite as explicit? if i used "3-fold repetition" instead of the FYI text? for me it would be clear that my program is not claiming a draw, but the TD wouldn't know that... cheers martin
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.