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Subject: Re: Gothic Chess and missing a Graphical interface

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 11:28:32 01/07/04

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On January 07, 2004 at 13:20:04, Tord Romstad wrote:

>Alexander Morozevich qualifies as a strong GM, I hope?  Especially when
>he was younger, he used to crush average GMs with unusual and often
>completely ridiculous-looking opening lines.  And below GM level, of
>course, opening theory is even less relevant.

The idea as you know come from Robert James Fischer, his comment (as I heard it
on one of the radio interviews) was that games now a days are "fixed".

What he meant was that world championship games like Kasparov-Kramnik is
effectively decided off the board. It is all about who has the best preparation,
all games are analyzed in full till move 20, probably a lot deeper than that
even.

The question is if this is the kind of sport we want, a sport where you are
chanceless without a team of strong GM's to help you analyze.

It seems to me this is a very big factor in who becomes the world champion and
it should be no factor at all.

>Besides, professionals in any intellectual endeavor must expect to do a
>lot of hard work.  I don't see how the fact that top players need to
>study and learn from the games of their competitors makes the game less
>attractive.

Playing through games is great, I just don't like it when others try to repeat
them in a mindless fashion.

A game should be unique and a product of your own strength and creativity, a
real piece of art :)

What we have now is that everybody playes like a super GM for the first 10 moves
or however long they can remember the theory.
After that the level drops like a rock with hanging pieces and forks everywhere,
depending on rating of course.

I find these first 10 moves to be very artificial compared to the rest of the
game. In FRC the game begins at move 1 and this creates a good performance
coherency throughout the game.

>>You are putting down FRC because it is different from chess but not quite as
>>different as hexagonal chess? :)
>
>In a way, yes I regard FRC as less attractive than normal chess for precisely
>the same reasons that you find it more attractive.  To me, as I have
>pointed out earlier, opening theory is an important part of the culture and
>history of chess.  When choosing to play any other chess variant than normal
>chess, we have to sacrifice this.  I am willing to make this sacrifice,
>but only if I get something else in return.  Thus Gothic chess and hexagonal
>chess are interesting, but FRC is not.
>
>Although FRC is a superset of classic chess in the mathematical sense, it
>feels more like a subset to me.

Subset/superset, variant or whatever, let's not get cought up in what to call
it, that's not important IMO.

>It is what you get when you subtract
>opening theory from classic chess.

Yes, precisely!

Of course I see you like opening theory, so you will not ever be a fan of FRC I
think. :)

>Another point is that when advocating some chess variant instead of
>normal chess, it feels sad and unambitious to advocate something as
>mundane as FRC.  With so many interesting chess variants out there, why
>not try something better?
>
>We should probably conclude that you are right, then:  I put down FRC
>because it is different from normal chess, but not sufficiently
>different to be interesting.  :-)

Don't get me wrong, I think a 16x16 chess variant would be a lot more fun than
even FRC, but comparing chess to FRC I'd prefer FRC.

Only "problem" is that chess has 1000x more players, so for that reason it's
still a lot more important.

>>The point of FRC, IMO, is that you get the same game that everybody knows and
>>loves, namely chess, but completely void of boring theory.
>>Nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>>It's like taking chess and rewinding the clock a few centuries, to bring back
>>the original spirit of the game.
>>
>>It is true that the endgame remains the same, but the endgame is not associated
>>with as much knowledge, at least it is a more fuzzy kind about ideas and
>>principles.
>>That's the kind of theory I actually like, things will teach you something about
>>the game, it's not brain dead memorization of lines.
>
>What?  Are we really talking about the same game?  Endgame knowledge is
>often very exact, concrete and scientific, unlike opening theory.  If you
>choose an inferior side line on the black side of the French defence, you
>will usually end up with just a slight disadvantage, and have lots of
>opportunities to fight back.  If you know something about the general
>strategic plans and ideas of the opening (knowledge of the "fuzzy kind"),
>your practical chances may even be better than your opponent.
>
>On the other hand, if you make a mistake while defending a theoretically
>drawn KRPKR endgame against an opponent who has studied the endgame
>and memorized the necessary lines, you will never get a second chance
>in the game.  Your opponent will win the game without any creative or
>intellectual effort at all.

IMO, endgames are more about applying the proper heuristic, e.g. take the
opposition of the kings to hold the draw.

I do not have any endgames memorized the same way I remember openings, nor do I
know of any book that teaches it, though there probably are some studies of
concrete positions.

-S.



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