Author: Brian Katz
Date: 04:46:08 01/15/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 15, 2004 at 07:33:34, Brian Katz wrote: >On January 15, 2004 at 06:24:21, Brian Katz wrote: > >>On January 15, 2004 at 01:45:45, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >> >>>On January 15, 2004 at 00:19:10, Chesster Fritz wrote: >>> >>>>On January 14, 2004 at 22:57:32, Sally Weltrop wrote: >>>> >>>>>[d]8/1B6/3k3p/pK4p1/P1P3P1/7P/5b2/8 b - - 0 49 >>>>> >>>>>Svidler resigns!!! >>>>> >>>>>Looks like a draw to me and other engines that I have used. >>>> >>>>Yes it appears to be drawn, but I'm not so sure about that. >>>>Computers will be of little help solving this ending imo. >>>> >>>>White, even though there are Bishops of opposite colour, has an advanced passed >>>>pawn, and though it can't Queen, may be Black's undoing, caution at every turn >>>>must be used not to lose on the King-Side. With a very deep analysis, it may be >>>>a complex win for White. I wouldn't resign so quickly, but I'd be very troubled >>>>by this position if I were Black. >>>> >>>>Maybe this will turn up as a brilliant endgame study in the future. >>>>I'm interested on what both Kramnik and Svidler have to say about this game. >>> >>>White's advantage is purely optical in nature. It's a stone cold draw. >>> >>>> >>>>It's late here, but I may take a stab at it myself, albiet I doubt I'll come up >>>>with a definitive answer. >>>> >>>>This ending takes the highest level of technique, and I'm not Capablanca or >>>>Svidler!;-) >>>> >>>>Most likely we'll see some good analysis from these Grandmasters, (Not >>>>Capablanca) unhappily deceased;-), but from Kramnik, Svidler, and other GMs. >>>> >>>>Fritz >> >> >>Fritz 8, Hiarcs 8 AMD Athlon XP 2600+ choose: >> 1.Kc7...which appears to lose in the end, (although both playout the position >>differently) >>Whereas Crafty 19.08 chooses 1.Bd4...allowing the capture of the a5 pawn with >>2.Kxa5 Kc5 3.Bd5 Be5 4.Ka6...and then 4...Bc3 5.a5 Bb4 and the White King cannot >>make it to the Queenside without giving back the a-pawn which would then be >>drawn. >> >>This ending sure does APPEAR to be drawn if Black immediately plays 1...Kc7! >>driving the White Bishop away and forever controling c7 and then follows with >>2...Be1 defending it's a5 pawn....... >> >>......BUT THIS SEEMS TO BE ONLY AN ILLUSION! AND SEEMS LOST FOR BLACK...... >> Perhaps some of you can show a forced win or draw. >> >>......As White can eventually get it's c-pawn to c6 defended by it's Bishop and >>White's King can get to g6 and win the h-6 pawn, but then Black's Bishop goes to >>a4 to defend it. Then White shifts his King back to the Queenside to attack the >>a5 pawn. Black then has to defend it by placing his Bishop on the e1-a5 >>diagonal. >>Even if Black times it just right whereas his Bishop gets to e1 to defend the a5 >>pawn, when White's King gets to b5 while the c6 pawn is defended by the White >>Bishop, White then throws in the pawn sacrifice >> 1.h4! gh 2.g5... >>and then the pawn advances to g6. Black's Bishop then has to keep and eye on g7 >>while White's King is on b5 attacking the a-pawn and his White Bishop is >>defending his c6 pawn. Black's King stays on c7. At that point, White makes a >>waiting Bishop move while it still defends the c6 pawn and still controlling h1 >>to prevent Black from Queening. Black must move it's Bishop from c3( assuming it >>was on the ideal square c3 simultaneously defending g7 and the a5 pawn) while >>still defending g7 thus allowing the capture of the a5 pawn and WINNING FOR >>WHITE! >>IF rather than moving the Black Bishop from the ideal c3 square, Black moves his >>King to b8 c8 or d8, White's King advances to b6 threatening to advance the pawn >>to c7 with check and then it's Bishop to the h3 c8 diagonal checking the King >>and the Queening with Check or if the Black King were on c8, it gets hit with >>the Bisop Check followed by c7 check and White Queens. If the Black Bishop goes >>to e5 to prevent the pawn advance to c7, Black then loses the a5 pawn and loses >>the game. >> HOWEVER >>Some other engines choose to play 1...Be1 first, allowing 2.Kc6 and then the a5 >>pawn is eventually lost. But with a Black Bishop on a5 (after taking the a5 >>pawn) and Black King on d6, White's King is stuck on the Queenside of the Board. >>If somehow White sacs the c-pawn allowing ...Kxc5 the White King can then make >>it over to the Kingside and win the h6 pawn but then we get into a position >>where Black defends the g-pawn with ...Bh4 and the Bishop stays there as long as >>the King is attacking the g-pawn. Meanwhile the Black King stays on a5 or a7 >>forever, and no progress is made. Or we can have a position where White >>eventually gives up the a-pawn after Black's a-pawn has been captured, and again >>we have a drawn position where the Black King controls c5 or c7 forever stopping >>White's c-pawn and the Black Bishop again stays on h4 to defend the g-pawn after >>White plays Kxh6... >> >>This is a fascinating position. >>1...Kc7 appears to hold the draw, but seems to lose! >>and >>1...Be1 appears to lose the game, but seems to draw! Perhaps this is why Svidler >>resigned. He may have just tossed this variation aside, because he would then be >>down 2 pawns. But White has to give one of the Queenside pawns back to get his >>King to the Queenside, and this draws. >> >>At first glance it appears the Black may have a draw with 1...Kc7, but it seems >>that White just alternates back and forth combining threats and eventually Black >>has to give somewhere. On the other hand, 1...Be1 appears to lose because the a5 >>pawn is lost but then Black's King and Bishop combine forces to control the >>Black King's access squares to the Kingside, and White then has to sac a KEY >>c-pawn to divert the Black King, but this pawn is needed to win the game. >> >>Grandmasters at that level see into positions like this much faster than you and >>I, although they do falter and botch won games and throw away drawn games. In >>this case, it appears that Svidler may have been incorrect in his decision. >> >>Please give your views on this position and correct my views if necessary as >>well. >>Look forward to hearing from you. >>Brian > > >Fritz 8 chooses in Infinite Analysis, the What at first appears to be drawing >...Kc7 but really seems to lose.....BUT chooses the what appears to be >DRAWING...Bd4 and other Bishop moves in the Deep Position Analysis Mode. > >Brian
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