Author: Tim Foden
Date: 06:41:02 02/14/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 13, 2004 at 17:06:17, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >On February 13, 2004 at 15:49:02, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On February 13, 2004 at 14:19:32, Steven Edwards wrote: >> >>>A brief comparison of the two knowledge based chess programs implemented in >>>Lisp: Paradise and Symbolic: >>> >>>Author (Paradise) David Wilkins of Sunny California. >>>Author (Symbolic) S. J. Edwards of Frozen New England. >>> >>>Date (Paradise) operational in 1979. >>>Date (Symbolic) begun in 2003, planned completion in late 2004. >>> >>>Implementation language (Paradise) MacLisp from MIT >>>Implementation language (Symbolic) ANSI C++ for the underlying chess toolkit >>>package, ASNI C++ for the ChessLisp (by Edwards) interpreter, and ChessLisp for >>>the knowledge based chess program itself. ChessLisp is a comprehensive subset >>>of Common Lisp with the addition of chess specific support. >>> >>>Implementation hardware (Paradise) Digital pdp10 (36 bits, Multics OS) >>>Implementation hardware (Symbolic) Any 32 or 64 bit platform supporting ANSI C++ >>>and POSIX; currently using a mixture of Apple Macintoshes (OS X/OpenBSD), a 400 >>>MHz AMD K6 (Linux), and a dual 1.13 GHz Intel P3 (Linux). >>> >>>Data structure primitives (Paradise) Lisp atoms and lists. >>>Data structure primitives (Symbolic) Lisp atoms and lists. ChessLisp has more >>>than a hundred primitive chess specific operations that access chess specific >>>structure types for atoms; these types include moves, boards, bitboards, >>>bitboard databases, positions, trees, and nodes. About a dozen chess specific >>>enumeration types (including squares, pieces, and directions) also have built in >>>support. >>> >>>Data structure operations (Paradise) MacLisp operations. >>>Data structure operations (Symbolic) ChessLisp operations. Computationally >>>expensive operations on chess structures are performed by the chess toolkit >>>routines as activated by the ChessLisp implementation of chess specific >>>operations like Generate, Execute, Retract, and ExpandNode. >>> >>>Property list usage (Paradise) The usual Lisp property list usage. >>>Property list usage (Symbolic) The usual Lisp property list usage. Various >>>chess specific structure types have extensive property lists initialized by >>>access to the underlying toolkit. >>> >>>Domain (Paradise) Any chess position with emphasis on complex tactical >>>middlegame positions. >>>Domain (Symbolic) Any chess position; support included for an opening book and >>>for tablebases. >>> >>>Search rate (Paradise) Highly variable, approximate mean of 20 seconds per node. >>>Search rate (Symbolic) Too early to tell. Simple movepath enumeration run from >>>ChessLisp is about 100,000 nodes per second on a 1 GHz PowerPC Macintosh. >>>Knowledge based search will be much, much slower; the target rate is 20 (yes, >>>only 20) nodes per second. >> >>1)I do not understand this target. >> >>This may be a result of implementing knowledge but the target should be >>implementing knowledge and not searching less nodes per second. >> >>2)I know nothing about paradise. >>I do not know about a single game that paradise played. >> >>If it was not developed to play games then what was the target of paradise? >>I also guess that 20 seconds per node was in old hardware of 1980 and today it >>should be clearly faster. >> >>Uri > >At the following link there is a short discussion (section 4.5 on selective >search) of the Paradise program and why it possibly interests SE so much: > >http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cache/papers/cs/24162/http:zSzzSzwww.cs.ualberta.cazSz~tonyzSzRecentPaperszSzreport.mac.pdf/marsland91computer.pdf > >If D. E. Wilkins' work interests you, here is another link that may interest >you: > >http://www.ai.sri.com/~wilkins/ I'd particularly like to read this paper... D. E. Wilkins, "Using patterns and plans in chess," Artifical Intelligence, vol. 14, pp. 165--203, 1980 ... but it only seems to be available from the AI journal. If anyone has it and can send it to me I'd be grateful. :) I'm also interested in this one, also from the AI journal: Adelson-Velsky, G.M. & Arlazarov, V.L & Donskoj, M.V. (1975). 'Some Methods of Controlling the Tree Search in Chess Programs', Artificial Intelligence 6, pp. 361-371. Cheers, Tim.
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