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Subject: Re: Comparison: Paradise and Symbolic

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 14:06:17 02/13/04

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On February 13, 2004 at 15:49:02, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 13, 2004 at 14:19:32, Steven Edwards wrote:
>
>>A brief comparison of the two knowledge based chess programs implemented in
>>Lisp: Paradise and Symbolic:
>>
>>Author (Paradise) David Wilkins of Sunny California.
>>Author (Symbolic) S. J. Edwards of Frozen New England.
>>
>>Date (Paradise) operational in 1979.
>>Date (Symbolic) begun in 2003, planned completion in late 2004.
>>
>>Implementation language (Paradise) MacLisp from MIT
>>Implementation language (Symbolic) ANSI C++ for the underlying chess toolkit
>>package, ASNI C++ for the ChessLisp (by Edwards) interpreter, and ChessLisp for
>>the knowledge based chess program itself.  ChessLisp is a comprehensive subset
>>of Common Lisp with the addition of chess specific support.
>>
>>Implementation hardware (Paradise) Digital pdp10 (36 bits, Multics OS)
>>Implementation hardware (Symbolic) Any 32 or 64 bit platform supporting ANSI C++
>>and POSIX; currently using a mixture of Apple Macintoshes (OS X/OpenBSD), a 400
>>MHz AMD K6 (Linux), and a dual 1.13 GHz Intel P3 (Linux).
>>
>>Data structure primitives (Paradise) Lisp atoms and lists.
>>Data structure primitives (Symbolic) Lisp atoms and lists.  ChessLisp has more
>>than a hundred primitive chess specific operations that access chess specific
>>structure types for atoms; these types include moves, boards, bitboards,
>>bitboard databases, positions, trees, and nodes.  About a dozen chess specific
>>enumeration types (including squares, pieces, and directions) also have built in
>>support.
>>
>>Data structure operations (Paradise) MacLisp operations.
>>Data structure operations (Symbolic) ChessLisp operations.  Computationally
>>expensive operations on chess structures are performed by the chess toolkit
>>routines as activated by the ChessLisp implementation of chess specific
>>operations like Generate, Execute, Retract, and ExpandNode.
>>
>>Property list usage (Paradise) The usual Lisp property list usage.
>>Property list usage (Symbolic) The usual Lisp property list usage.  Various
>>chess specific structure types have extensive property lists initialized by
>>access to the underlying toolkit.
>>
>>Domain (Paradise) Any chess position with emphasis on complex tactical
>>middlegame positions.
>>Domain (Symbolic) Any chess position; support included for an opening book and
>>for tablebases.
>>
>>Search rate (Paradise) Highly variable, approximate mean of 20 seconds per node.
>>Search rate (Symbolic) Too early to tell.  Simple movepath enumeration run from
>>ChessLisp is about 100,000 nodes per second on a 1 GHz PowerPC Macintosh.
>>Knowledge based search will be much, much slower; the target rate is 20 (yes,
>>only 20) nodes per second.
>
>1)I do not understand this target.
>
>This may be a result of implementing knowledge but the target should be
>implementing knowledge and not searching less nodes per second.
>
>2)I know nothing about paradise.
>I do not know about a single game that paradise played.
>
>If it was not developed to play games then what was the target of paradise?
>I also guess that 20 seconds per node was in old hardware of 1980 and today it
>should be clearly faster.
>
>Uri

At the following link there is a short discussion (section 4.5 on selective
search) of the Paradise program and why it possibly interests SE so much:

http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cache/papers/cs/24162/http:zSzzSzwww.cs.ualberta.cazSz~tonyzSzRecentPaperszSzreport.mac.pdf/marsland91computer.pdf

If D. E. Wilkins' work interests you, here is another link that may interest
you:

http://www.ai.sri.com/~wilkins/



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