Author: Uri Blass
Date: 12:49:02 02/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 13, 2004 at 14:19:32, Steven Edwards wrote: >A brief comparison of the two knowledge based chess programs implemented in >Lisp: Paradise and Symbolic: > >Author (Paradise) David Wilkins of Sunny California. >Author (Symbolic) S. J. Edwards of Frozen New England. > >Date (Paradise) operational in 1979. >Date (Symbolic) begun in 2003, planned completion in late 2004. > >Implementation language (Paradise) MacLisp from MIT >Implementation language (Symbolic) ANSI C++ for the underlying chess toolkit >package, ASNI C++ for the ChessLisp (by Edwards) interpreter, and ChessLisp for >the knowledge based chess program itself. ChessLisp is a comprehensive subset >of Common Lisp with the addition of chess specific support. > >Implementation hardware (Paradise) Digital pdp10 (36 bits, Multics OS) >Implementation hardware (Symbolic) Any 32 or 64 bit platform supporting ANSI C++ >and POSIX; currently using a mixture of Apple Macintoshes (OS X/OpenBSD), a 400 >MHz AMD K6 (Linux), and a dual 1.13 GHz Intel P3 (Linux). > >Data structure primitives (Paradise) Lisp atoms and lists. >Data structure primitives (Symbolic) Lisp atoms and lists. ChessLisp has more >than a hundred primitive chess specific operations that access chess specific >structure types for atoms; these types include moves, boards, bitboards, >bitboard databases, positions, trees, and nodes. About a dozen chess specific >enumeration types (including squares, pieces, and directions) also have built in >support. > >Data structure operations (Paradise) MacLisp operations. >Data structure operations (Symbolic) ChessLisp operations. Computationally >expensive operations on chess structures are performed by the chess toolkit >routines as activated by the ChessLisp implementation of chess specific >operations like Generate, Execute, Retract, and ExpandNode. > >Property list usage (Paradise) The usual Lisp property list usage. >Property list usage (Symbolic) The usual Lisp property list usage. Various >chess specific structure types have extensive property lists initialized by >access to the underlying toolkit. > >Domain (Paradise) Any chess position with emphasis on complex tactical >middlegame positions. >Domain (Symbolic) Any chess position; support included for an opening book and >for tablebases. > >Search rate (Paradise) Highly variable, approximate mean of 20 seconds per node. >Search rate (Symbolic) Too early to tell. Simple movepath enumeration run from >ChessLisp is about 100,000 nodes per second on a 1 GHz PowerPC Macintosh. >Knowledge based search will be much, much slower; the target rate is 20 (yes, >only 20) nodes per second. 1)I do not understand this target. This may be a result of implementing knowledge but the target should be implementing knowledge and not searching less nodes per second. 2)I know nothing about paradise. I do not know about a single game that paradise played. If it was not developed to play games then what was the target of paradise? I also guess that 20 seconds per node was in old hardware of 1980 and today it should be clearly faster. Uri
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