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Subject: Re: SSDF Rating List 2004-02-25

Author: Chessfun

Date: 11:48:11 02/26/04

Go up one level in this thread


On February 26, 2004 at 14:28:14, Frank Quisinsky wrote:

>On February 26, 2004 at 13:28:03, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On February 26, 2004 at 08:22:51, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>
>>>On February 26, 2004 at 08:02:20, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>>>On the other hand: You state in the mentioned posting that you believe that
>>>>Ruffian 2.0.0 is about 50-60 Elos stronger then the version 23.06.2003 (which is the Leiden version, am I right ?)
>>>
>>>No!
>>>Version 2.0.0 is clear stronger as the test version from 23.06.03 (not public
>>>Ruffian version).
>>>
>>>>After the results of 2.0.0 were not as good as expected you said that it is not
>>>>as strong an blitz. Later you said that it has problems with fisher time
>>>>controls. And a bit later you said that maybe the Leiden version (23.06.2003 ?)
>>>>is a bit stronger - because the v2.0.0 is - your words - in fact a beta version
>>>>and was not tested very much. So what is correct now ?
>>>
>>>My comments are build from the results which I saw and my own.
>>>I search the reason why users have different Ruffian results.
>>>The most of the "bad" results I know from user which used ChessBase GUIs.
>>>Within my first test was the Fisher time controls and the UCI Ruffian.
>>>In the beta test some things in UCI mode are fixed by Per-Ola. Information can
>>>be found in Arena Support Forum (longer beta test of Ruffian).
>>>
>>>>> I add my personal results in my forum and Arena webpages. I have no other
>>>>> results.
>>>>
>>>>I think since the release of Ruffian 2.0.0 you should have now MANY more games -
>>>>you even comment on many of the results - always with the same story that your
>>>>own results show a difference... But for the conclusion in that posting -
>>>>Ruffian 2.0.0 50-60 Elo stronger then Ruffian 23.06.2003 -> how many games did
>>>>you have to claim that ? Just a question, not an insult of course !
>>>
>>>I have played in the beta test time with Ruffian 23.06.03, later with the Leiden
>>>version of Ruffian. Here I have played some games, but the most with 40 moves in
>>>10 minutes. I public different tournaments with Ruffian versions in the last
>>>summer on Arena webpages. I test Ruffian with private collected positions too.
>>>
>>>I have around 500 games with Ruffian 23.06. and around 400 games with Ruffian
>>>Leiden. The most are 40/10, played under Arena Chess GUI.
>>>
>>>>You may remember the Gandalf-story... There you also said that it is one of the
>>>>best if not the best engine at all. Gandalf was strong those days and still is -
>>>>but there was a difference between dreams and reality.
>>>
>>>At this time my CCE tourney was running.
>>>I believe the biggest tournament which I ever see in WWW.
>>>18 months tournament time with games in 40 moves in 40 minutes.
>>>Look in the SSDF and the Gandalf results. In the time of Gandalf are Fritz 6 and
>>>Junior 6 available. The first versions of Fritz 7 are not so strong later are
>>>Fritz stronger. You can see the different from Gandalf to Fritz 6 and Junior 6.
>>>The same differences in my CCE tournament. The SSDF tested Gandalf on slower AMD
>>>systems and Gandalf need time too ... you can see it now on the faster Athlon
>>>1.2 GHz systems.
>>>
>>>You can see ... I give of every questions an answer.
>>>Maybe we can make an interview :-))
>>>
>>>>Besides that -> you might have read my complete posting:
>>>>a) I pointed out that I still believe that Ruffian 2.0.0 is stronger then
>>>>Ruffian 1.0.1
>>>>b) I even defend you that it is possible that your results seem to indicate that
>>>>it is way better.
>>>
>>>Yes, I saw it!
>>>At the moment I try to find out the problem!
>>>With Shredder and many games I can say more and the results can be found in
>>>Arena Event Forum with log files and so on.
>>>
>>>>Seems that you offend everybody who tries to defend you... not very kind... it
>>>>seems that you still must realize that you are a businessman in computer chess
>>>>now and must live with bad and good news. I believe that some of the older heros
>>>>here like Ed or Ossi can tell you much about hits bellow the belt in that
>>>>business. The SSDF-Result is of course not such a hit - it's simply reality. I
>>>>hope that we will not see anotherone now you forces the SSDF to take an engine
>>>>off the list.
>>>
>>>Not interesting what you know wrote!
>>>I am user of chess software and computer chess is not my World of buisiness
>>>after my "Erfahrungen" in the last years.
>>>
>>>The SSDF results are now reality, of course yes!
>>>But more interesting is to search why the Ruffian results are different.
>>>This is much more important for me.
>>>
>>>>Greets, Thomas
>>>>
>>>>P.S.: And believe me, the result of Ruffian 2.0.0 will get better - so far only
>>>>~ 150 games are played and only 4 opponents. It might not jump 100 Elos ahead
>>>>but I have no doubts that it will end up higher then Ruffian 1.0.1...
>>>
>>>Ruffian 2.0.0 is in fact around 75 ELO stronger as Ruffian 1.0.5 and within I
>>>believe 100 ELO stronger as Ruffian 1.0.1. Do you know the results by Patrick
>>>Buchmann, Alex Schmidt and much other persons in WWW. On the machine of Wilhelm
>>>Hudetz the newer Ruffian won in front of Shredder. You can find a lot of such
>>>results in WWW but bad results too. Now we have to test and to find out the
>>>reason for it.
>>
>>
>>I don't believe Ruffian 2.0.0 is anything near 100 points stronger than Ruffian
>>1.0.1. I don't honestly think anyone does, except maybe you.
>>http://chessprogramming.org/cccsearch/ccc.php?art_id=342103
>>
>>Sarah.
>
>Hi Sarah,
>
>questions (very important for me so far).
>Do you test with or without ponder?


Did you not read the link I provided?

"All Ruffian 2.0.0 games played at 60' ponder off
AMD XP 2600+
Ruffian 2.0.0 used Leiden opening book."

Same conditions as 1.0.1

Sarah.



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