Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 07:14:50 04/07/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 06, 2004 at 17:43:50, Dann Corbit wrote: >On April 06, 2004 at 17:32:37, Sune Fischer wrote: > >> >>>There is no way that figure is correct, unless you count the web servers that >>>people connect to. I often see these commically overblown figures quoted. They >>>are rather funny. Walk into any computer store. What do all the computers have >>>installed on them? Hint: It's not Linux. Linux will never be the desktop for >>>the coporate world precisely because the Linux community thinks that the world >>>is composed of computer geeks. >> >>Not all Linux users are geeks, in fact many of them are quite ordinary people. >>It's not impossible and it does not require geekness to get working. > >It's not the users I am targeting with my remarks, but the developoers. > >By the way, I think that Linux is (by a landslide) the only logical platform for >server applications. Depends upon how many copies of your application you plan to sell... >>>>The problem is most people are just not aware of the high quality engines you >>>>can download for free. If they were I think it would hurt sales of the >>>>commercial engines. Marketing is everything here, and nobody markets the free >>>>stuff. >>> >>>It will have no impact at all on the commercial products. A commercial chess >>>program has the engine as a tiny fraction of the work, and the commercial >>>engines are all stronger than the best free ones. They are also more reliable. >> >>B.S. >>Marketing is their main force. Playing Garry really puts your name out there, >>having a box placed in every computer and toy store sells automaticly. > >I agree that marketing and shelf space are dominating. But without a superior >product, you will not sell 5 million copies of anything. > >>Free engines are for those who know what they are looking for, you don't just >>stumble on them by coincidence. > >I agree 100% > >>I also disagree the engine is a tiny fraction, I'm pretty sure the engine is the >>main selling point. > >Not a chance. The biggest selling product ChessMaster does not have the >strongest engine. > >>Strength only matters to the really serious players, this demanding group will >>probably buy the commercial products because they have better engines, not >>because their GUI has more eye candy. > >I think that the strongest players are more concerned about style. At least >that is what I hear from GMs. The novice players that want to get a high rating >online (vicariously obviously) are the ones concerned about SSDF ratings. > >>>>That is now your worst criticism? >>>>I suggest they download SCID which is all so free. >>> >>>But the games stored in it are crap compared to a commercial system. Even after >>>a careful cleansing of the free database systems that you can download, you will >>>find 50 different spellings for Fisher or Kasparov. >> >>Remember Dann, we are dealing with people here who aren't able to install from >>CD's and edit a txt file. >>I can practicly promise you they won't care much for the quality of the database >>either :) > >You might be right about that. > >>Good players will need the best of course, they are the ones who should be >>purchasing the commercial products. > >I think that the commercial products are better for everyone, but the free ones >are also excellent. That is why I have, use, and enjoy both free and commercial >products. There are things you can do with the free stuff that is harder to do >or cannot be done with the commercial stuff. > >>>>The average user can then make do with what comes pre-installed in Arena, which >>>>is also plenty for the un-interested idividual anyway. >>> >>>Actually, that's not such a bad idea. It's not nearly so good as a commercial >>>system, but it will be far easier for them than Winboard. >> >>Yeah, that's my point. There is so little difference beside perhaps the strength >>of the engines. And Ruffian 1.0.5 comes in that bundle so it's not exactly weak. >> >>The question is how many of these techno-phobes who doens't know what a path is >>will actually care if they are using Ruffian or Shredder? >>I think not many, hence there is little need to buy a commercial product. >> >>The best would be for them to start out with the free stuff, and if these do not >>satisfy their needs then they can spend their money on a stronger package. > >I like this pattern too. It is what I did. I used free stuff for years before >I bought anything. > >>It seems the process acts in reverse, they first buy the commercial stuff and >>later discover they could have saved some money :) > >That is what John Merlino said, and he is clearly in a position to know. > >>>>Supporting the winboard engines is just a bonus, something the user should be >>>>happy about! >>>>The Fritz GUI is just being cruel to the users expecting them to fiddle with >>>>adaptors. >>> >>>They make a few open source engines available. Most users won't care what >>>engine that they play. >> >>Right! :) >> >>>>Perhaps that is why you are so negative, you have been around the worst of the >>>>worst and think this represents the average user. >>> >>>The system I supported was very much like Winboard. You had to edit >>>configuration files. It was called G-Wiz graphics and used a driver set called >>>the GSS*CGI from Beaverton Oregon. The operations you had to do to operate the >>>system were very nearly equivalent to what you have to do for Winboard. >>> >>>>Have you any idea how many who _didn't_ need to call technical support because >>>>they figured it out on their own? >>> >>>No clue. Probably about half [wild guess]. I did programming and even sales as >>>well. It was a small company (10 people). The reason I brought it up was to >>>point out that I was speaking from experience. >> >>Yes I knew you were, just asking you to keep the perspective. :) >> >>>>If you don't know these techniques, don't worry about playing with a chess >>>>program, worry about taking a computers 101 course! >>> >>>A bazillion users of chessmaster did not have to take a computer course to use >>>it. >> >>Probably these people has needed help to get the internet and the new sound card >>to work. Then they can get someone to show them how to edit a text file too. >> >>>That is why they sold 5 million copies. And if people have to edit text >>>files, that product will not sell 5 million copies. >> >>That is not why they sold 5 million. >> >>Try and stop marketing the product, take it off the shelves and put it on a free >>download on some geocity machine using a different name. >> >>It is still chessmaster, it is still as good as ever. Will it get many >>downloads, no, because nobody knows what it is and nobody knows where to find >>it. >> >>"Branding" is the world we live in. > >You definitely have a valid point as far as branding. But I think we would see >50 million downloads of ChessMaster if it were free. As evidence I point to the >volume on Kazaa in former times. (IOW -- people do have enough sophistication >to download if there is an available toolset that makes it easy for them).
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