Author: Kurt Utzinger
Date: 12:20:03 04/29/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 29, 2004 at 15:04:11, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>On April 29, 2004 at 14:47:16, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>
>>The so called "boring" playing style can be applied by following the rules
>>stated below, but I'm warning you. Such games are indeed very very boring and
>>not only strong players may ruine their style:
>>
>>1) never play for a win, even if the own position is slightly better
>>2) avoid time trouble (most important)
>>3) style: quiet, cautious, prophylactical (very important) but not passive
>> (important)
>>4) positional: proper pawn structure, control open lines, try to get statically
>> balanced positions and avoid dynamically balanced positions, avoid whenever
>> possible pawn majorities
>
> If you play a few games versus junior 8 or djunior 8.zx you know this is
>clearly impossible since the program always goes for unbalanced positions.
>
>>5) trade (all) pieces - in particular the queens - whenever this is possible
>> without giving the slightest advantage to the opponent
>
> I agree, this strategy has being used in the last years by strong gms versus
>computers. Super GM Vladimir Kramnik used it several times in his match vs fritz
>in 2002, and was a full success.
>
>
>>5) avoid tactics and unclear lines
>
> Avoid unclear lines: this is difficult, but with proper training in the opening
>i don't see why this isn't working.
>
> Avoid tactics: you just can't avoid tactics, but you can avoid heavy tactics
>which is quite different. First time Kramnik went into tactics vs fritz was
>demolished by the computer when he sacrificed a knight for compensation. He
>couldn't find it, and which is more lost because fritz defended perfectly.
>However, Kramnik showed even world champions can make miserable failures or
>blunders, and hunged a knight in game 6.
>
>>7) go for endgames with bishops of opposite colours (in particular with
>> a pawn down)
>>6) choose suitable playing level [at least 120'/60, better 120'/40] and
>> avoid blitz games
>
> Of course humans don't have a chance vs strong computers at blitz. As i read
>in certain interview, Garry Kasparov was able to score near 50% vs Junior 7 on
>5' + 2'', but since this program is old i think he wouldn't score more than 30%
>vs ssdf nº1 shredder 8, and remember he is one of the best blitz players in the
>world, if not the best.
>>
>>On the other hand I can assure you that even 1900-2000 Elo rated human players
>>will be able to get a score of 25 % to 30 % against all top engines.
>
> No way! a 2000 elo would not do more than 10% against a computer, even at
>classical time controls. Of course, this is my opinion...
>
> Pablo
Hi Paplo
You very much overestimate the real strength of computer programs
if humans are fighting this way. Please also have a look at some
games at http://www.utzingerkurt.com/man_machine.htm
I would even say that to get 20 % is easier vs the top five engines
with their fine books than vs a strong amateur with a less good book!!
And as to Kramnik: he did not play the boring playing style as he was
always looking for a chance to get the full point and this needs a lot
of power and makes humans tired.
Kurt
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