Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:50:11 06/01/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 01, 2004 at 04:10:01, Uri Blass wrote: >On May 31, 2004 at 18:33:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 31, 2004 at 18:29:09, Matthias Gemuh wrote: >> >>>On May 31, 2004 at 15:08:51, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 31, 2004 at 13:41:39, Miroslav Nikolic wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hardware: PIII 800MHz, 256Mb RAM >>>>>OS: Windows Xp >>>>>GUI: Chessprogram8 (Fritz 8) >>>>>Tournament: 10x8x40min, round robin, 8 rounds >>>>>Time control: 40'/40, 40'/40 + 40' (rest) >>>>>Hash: 32 MB >>>>>Ponder: off >>>>>Resign: on >>>>>Tablebase: Nalimov 4-pieces >>>>>TB Cache : 6 MB >>>>>Book used: DeepFritz7.ctg for Deep Fritz, H8 for Hiarcs, Select.ctg (by me) >>>>>for others >>>>>Book learning: off >>>> >>>> >>>>Just a question: Why would you want to turn off a part of a chess program that >>>>is not easy to develop in the first place? IE book learning is a part of many >>>>engines. Turning it off makes no sense to me... any more than turning off >>>>passed pawn evaluation or selective search capabilities... > >I think that it is better if programmers enable also option to turn off passed >pawns evaluation and other parameters. > >In the last version of movei that I still did not release the user can change >the passed pawn evaluation by changing weights including disabling them if you >change the relevant weights to 0. > >I will not be surprised if it is possible to find a better personality by >changing weights. In current crafty, you can change weights, or you can change each specific eval term if you so choose. But using the _Default_ book, which depends on learning to cull bad lines, and then disabling learning makes no sense whatsoever... > >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Strange logic ! >>>How can one compare book learning with passed pawn evaluation or selective >>>search ? >> >>Very simple. >> >>1. I added passed pawn logic to address weaknesses that needed help, in >>Crafty's particular playing style. >> >>2. I _specifically_ designed the opening book around book learning. I have >>_no_ hand-tailored lines, my book is made by sucking in reams of PGN data and >>then relying on learning to discover which lines are bad or unplayable. >> >>Is this hard to understand? If I had a hand-customized book, I wouldn't care, >>but I don't, and turning off the learning facility simply makes _zero_ sense... >> >>>To make sure that the outcome of a tournament does not depend on order >>>of opponents, book learning has to be switched off. >> >> >>That's nonsense. Does a human have to do a "brain purge" between opponents? > >We cannot do it with humans but we can do it with engines and it makes better >comparison. How. I have a bad line in my book. Do I _really_ have to play it multiple times against each opponent to make a better comparison? Or do I have to take the time to hand-edit each "learned result" I get so that the book will be as good as possible??? > >If you want to compare between different versions when the change is only in the>evaluation then learning add varaible that is not relevant and it is better to >compare results when learning is off. > I don't see why. It introduces random noise into an experiment, repeatedly, when the program plays an opening it would normally have learned was bad... >Uri
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