Author: Uri Blass
Date: 15:29:46 06/02/04
Go up one level in this thread
On June 02, 2004 at 14:08:44, Dan Honeycutt wrote: >On June 02, 2004 at 12:23:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On June 02, 2004 at 06:48:03, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >> >[snip] > >>>frosting on the cake. >>> >>>For an amateur engine though, it's just a distraction. We have enough of those >>>as it is. The various zero-cost solutions are totally sufficient. >> >> >>What is a "zero cost solution" to the book problem? I've been working on a >>chess program since 1968. I have _never_ found a "zero cost solution" to the >>book problem. My current effort is the closest there can be, because once I >>wrote the code (which did not take months of effort by the way) it began to >>manage its own book, freeing me from that responsibility. Net gain in >>productivity was very large. If you don't learn, you either hand-tune or get >>killed. The former is a huge time drain, the latter is unpleasant. :) >> >>I have published a paper in the JICCA explaining _exactly_ how I did learning. >>So you don't have to start from scratch, which I did. And even from scratch it >>was hardly a huge effort. The complete learning code in crafty, book and >>position, importing, exporting, everything is 1200 lines of C with plenty of >>comments. It isn't _that_ hard to do... >> >>I'm sure that if I could do it, anyone could do it... >> >> >> >>> >>>Just my 2 cents of course ... >>> >>>Vas > >I think Vas was talking to me, not you. A (near) zero-cost solution is to get a >collection of high quality games, grind those into a book and let the engine >play move so-and-so the same percent of the time as played in the games >collection. Your engine prefers 1 d4 over 1 e4. Mine has too little experience >to know what it prefers. > >Dan H. For me what you do is not near zero-cost solution. I have no function to read a collection of high quality games and movei only knows to read books in movei format(lines like e2e4e7e5g1f3). Only to have a book that knows about tranposition(I can say that I finished that job) was for me not an easy problem and I guess that the time that I used for programming and fixing all the bugs and thinking took me 50-100 hours(I did not calculated exact time but I worked about it for some weeks(of course I did not use all the time for writing book code and thinking about it but if I used 3 hours in a day for that task and I used 21 days then simple math says 63 hours). Note also that my book is different than crafty and the book has pairs of hash key and move and frequency and learning(latest movei still does not use the learning and does not change the learning weight after a loss but i plan to do it) Having learning to avoid practically losing the same game twice unless even if the learning is not optimal seems to me clearly easier task. I only need to reduce the learning value of every losing move so after losing a game with 1.e4 the program will change to 1.d4 and after losing every possible legal move the program may choose 1.e4 but is going to choose a different second move and not a move that it already lost. Uri
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