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Subject: Re: legal nalimov egtb status

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:17:21 06/07/04

Go up one level in this thread

On June 07, 2004 at 10:13:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On June 06, 2004 at 05:41:03, GuyHaworth wrote:
>>A richer context for your question would be informative:
>>a)  What do the German Police say in their letter?
>>    A good translation into English would be helpful
>basically the police says they want eye witness reports whether someone managed
>to obtain via ebay a chessproduct called 'nalimov egtb's'.
>they do as if it is a 'chessproduct'.
>this where we all know it's a collection of EGTB files.
>>b)  What is the 'relationship' between the 11 Tablebase CDs you bought ...
>>    ... and Chessbase offerings.
>the relationship is that not chessbase earned on these cdroms but others, so
>they file a complaint.
>>    [ I am assuming that the concern is related to Chessbase here. ]
>>The national and international nuances of the law here are something I should
>>know more about.  There are, I believe, international initiatives to harmonise
>it is very simple, if nalimov says there is no copyrights on his EGTBs and
>everybody can copy them for free, then you can do so, and free software
>distributors can charge small copy costs for the egtbs.

If someone copies ChessBase CDs and sell them, they will probably have a
problem.  If someone sells CDs with EGTBs on them and ChessBase pursues this, it
is likely this will be the end of ChessBase.  If they want to take issue with my
ftp site where _all_ EGTBs are available, more power to them.  But until
_Eugene_ says we need to stop keeping them here, I won't listen.  :)

>if nalimov says there is authorship on his egtb's and only chessbase has the
>right to sell it, it means that if he can prove he has not done statements
>before that say something else, that the person in question offering them
>'systematically' at ebay will go to jail.
>It's not chessbase sueing, it's the police who investigates whether someone has
>sold illegal cdroms. it explicitly mentions the cdroms are not 'copies' but
>'professional made' cdroms.

Whatever that means...

>>the law on copyright and 'electronic theft'.
>every state in europe has different laws here. some countries go further than
>>Unless Chessbase have 'watermarked' their published version of Eugene's files -
>>and I don't think the 'header' of the file allows for that - there is no way
>>afaik to tell whether an 'EN table' has come from Chessbase's CD or been ftp'd
>>from the web.
>if the egtb files fall under the author right, because nalimov has himself
>generated them, then the case is more complicated.
>>Chessbase 'provide value' in that they:
>>a)  deliver the tables to you and save you download time
>you refer to the 'copy costs' which is true in case nalimov doesn't do claims
>which are validated. In other cases things are not so easy and very complicated
>from a law viewpoint.
>For example you are not allowed to sell a cd with selftaken pictures in GIF
>format, because GIF is a patented file format.
>(i deliberately say pictures and not mp3's, because music things are complete
>crazy with the music maffia organized within RIAAA, i've been negotiating with
>those chaps in the past myself so i can be a witness that the organisations
>under that umbrella BUMRA/STEMRA/SEMA in netherlands they are completely away
>from this planet and avoid good popsongs from even having good instrumental
>music; they must all use synthezisers because if you do not use them the music
>maffia will ask money for each instrument that is played by a person X who once
>signs up with them).
>>b)  provide you with CD-storage, useful if you want to later delete the files
>>        ok:  it's not as inexpensive as buying your own blank CDs
>>c)  provide assurance that the EN tables are 'correct'
>>        well, I would have said this until recently re the 6-man glitch
>>So, clearly, their _collection_ and _publication_ of tables benefits from
>>copyright protection, even though the individual tables do not.
>Things are not so clear at all. the only clear thing is that when Nalimov says
>he never has sold rights to chessbase to sell the EGTBs, but that everyone is
>free to copy the files, that there is no more police criminal investigation into
>this matter.
>I expect however Nalimov to say nothing, as usual, and then things remain
>I do not know the person in question who sold things on ebay, but i can assure
>you he makes a chance to go to jail there in germany when nalimov says chessbase
>has the legal right to sell them and no one else.

He might well have an agreement from them.  However, he also ships them to me to
make them public so the files themselves are _clearly_ made to be public-domain.
  If he has an agreement that they will be the only source to "sell" them then
we'll have to see how that plays out.  I don't claim to be a lawyer, and would
not ask one here about laws in Germany anyway...


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