Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 04:49:53 07/22/04
Go up one level in this thread
On July 22, 2004 at 03:47:42, George Sobala wrote: >On July 22, 2004 at 01:22:51, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On July 21, 2004 at 16:04:02, George Sobala wrote: >> >>>... I asked, "what would Kasparov do against the same opposition", not "what >>>would Shredder 8 do against Kasparov". >> >>Yes, but that was not the real Shredder, but just the commercial version (one of >>them as there is the UCI one which is stronger) and running on a slow computer. >> >>Sandro George, > > >Sandro > >Let me start by explaining that I have *enormous* respect for Shredder as an >engine, and for its programming team. > >As such a friend, I would caution you to be more careful with your choice of >words, and you may wish to retract your last comment. Are you really claiming >that the engine which you have sold to the world is "not the REAL Shredder"?? Maybe there has been a misunderstanding. I mean that the version used is the commercial version. The commercial version is made to be suiting very many people (customers) so it is including some options which are not used in the version which is used in WCCC tournaments and other tournaments. I mean that the commercial version needs to include a lot of variety in the opening book to avoid the customer getting bored by the computer playing always the same variations as well as variations which people like to play and therefore find in a commercial program. When we play a tournament it is important to score the most, so the book is used in a selected mode. Also the lines selection is made by the operator considering the opponent as well, if we want. When a commercial version is entered in a tournament the program does not know who is the opponent and this may effect the performance/final result. Also if the program/opening book is know (available) to the opponents it may be easier for the opponents to find a good line and score good. This is the same for every program; not only Shredder. > >You have advertised it on www.chessbase.com as "Shredder 8 – Double World >Champion 2003. For most computer chess experts Shredder is the number one >choice. Nobody can ignore its amazing five computer chess world championship >titles, won at Jakarta 1996, Paderborn 1999, London 2000, Maastricht 2001 and >Graz 2003. So in the Shredder 8 box you have the reigning double world champion >2003, ready to play and analyse with you." > >And now you tell us that actually it is not the REAL Shredder in the box! To me the real Shredder is the one we used at the tournaments operated by us and with a restricted book moves selections...and always including new moves... >What is that noise I hear? Oh - it is the sound of lawyers hyperventilating >with >excitement. > >Furthermore, the above is completely irrelevant to my point. I am sure you can >coax extra performance from Shredder with extra tweaks, processors and killer >books. So what? It is the commercial version running on a lowly AMD 1200 that >has an SSDF score of 2818. The same commercial version (on FASTER hardware) >has a TPR less than 2600 in a tournament. I don't think you can link the two as the SSDF list is a computer programs list. I mean all players do not know against whom they are playing against. Different is when one player does not know who the opponent is and the opponents know what that program will play... > >SSDF!=ELO Some of us already knew that, but many didn't. SSDF = Elo between computer games. Elo = performance against human players Now it would be different if the operator is one of the programming team and if the hardware and the book is not known... Do you understand what I mean? What would be the result if when you play your opponent would know what you would play in advance? Would you score the same if he does not? Sandro
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.