Author: Peter Berger
Date: 14:48:34 08/15/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 15, 2004 at 01:48:42, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>On August 14, 2004 at 19:50:26, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On August 14, 2004 at 14:01:31, Albert Silver wrote:
>>
>>>On August 14, 2004 at 13:55:17, Albert Silver wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 14, 2004 at 12:24:16, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[Event "Match rapid 90 min"]
>>>>>[Site "Abu Dhabi"]
>>>>>[Date "2004.08.14"]
>>>>>[Round "1"]
>>>>>[White "Hydra"]
>>>>>[Black "Shredder"]
>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>[ECO "B80"]
>>>>>[Annotator "Hydra"]
>>>>>[PlyCount "75"]
>>>>>
>>>>>1. e4 {0s} c5 {Buch 0s} 2. Nf3 {8s} d6 {Buch 0s} 3. d4 {8s} cxd4 {Buch 0s} 4.
>>>>>Nxd4 {1:17m} Nf6 {Buch 0s} 5. Nc3 {17s} a6 {Buch 0s} 6. Be3 {13s (Lg5)} e6 {
>>>>>Buch 0s} 7. f3 {2:10m (Le2)} b5 {Buch 0s} 8. g4 {19s (Dd2)} h6 {Buch 0s} 9. Qd2
>>>>>{16s} Nbd7 {Buch 0s} 10. O-O-O {34s} Bb7 {Buch 0s} 11. h4 {12s} d5 {Buch 0s}
>>>>>12. exd5 {2:13m} Nxd5 {Buch 0s} 13. Nxd5 {1:43m} Bxd5 {Buch 0s} 14. Bg2 {4:19m}
>>>>>Ne5 {Buch 1s} 15. Qe2 {2:41m} Qa5 {Buch 2s} 16. f4 {2:02m} Qxa2 {Buch 2s} 17.
>>>>>Bxd5 {2:19m} Qa1+ {+0.14/16 33s} 18. Kd2 {15s} Bb4+ {-0.31/17 51s} 19. c3 {
>>>>>1:19m} Qxb2+ {-0.41/19 1:10m} 20. Ke1 {1:02m} Bxc3+ {-0.43/19 1:02m} 21. Kf1 {
>>>>>2:45m} exd5 {-0.48/20 2s} 22. fxe5 {2:07m} Qb4 {-0.48/19 2s} 23. Bf2 {
>>>>>2:19m (Kf2)} O-O {-0.58/20 3:59m} 24. g5 {9:52m (Sc6)} Bxd4 {-0.89/20 4:22m}
>>>>>25. Bxd4 {9s} h5 {-0.98/19 2:35m} 26. Kg2 {14s (Dxh5)} Rac8 {-0.98/19 3:56m}
>>>>>27. Rhf1 {14s} Qe7 {-1.16/18 2:18m} 28. Qxh5 {2:38m} Rc2+ {-1.38/18 49s} 29.
>>>>>Kg3 {1:11m} Rc6 {-1.64/18 1:19m} 30. Rd3 {2:40m} a5 {-1.90/18 1:06m} 31. Rdf3 {
>>>>>4:31m} Re6 {-2.63/17 9:03m} 32. Rf6 {2:00m} Rxe5 {-2.72/19 3s} 33. Bxe5 {2:34m}
>>>>>Qxe5+ {-2.72/19 3s} 34. R6f4 {2:24m} a4 {-2.84/17 54s} 35. Kg2 {1:42m} d4 {
>>>>>-3.59/18 1:36m} 36. Rxf7 {1:51m (Tf5)} Qd5+ {-4.04/17 3:00m} 37. R7f3 {1:46m}
>>>>>Rc8 {-4.23/18 3s} 38. Re1 {1:22m (Df7+)} 1-0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Great opening preparation by the Hydra team. As mentioned by Drexel, there are
>>>>little to no games with 11...d5 yet it was clearly a carefully planned line.
>>>>
>>>>[D]r2qkb1r/1b1n1pp1/p3pn1p/1p1p4/3NP1PP/2N1BP2/PPPQ4/2KR1B1R w kq -
>>>>
>>>>I have 10 in my database, the last 2 being from... Ramat Gan 2004(!) between
>>>>Falcon and Shredder in round 11, and the other being a quick 15 move draw in
>>>>France. It was hardly a blunder on Black's part though, since White's 13.Nxd5 is
>>>>a theoretical novelty and Black was in book until 16.Qxa2. Shredder was
>>>>outbooked here.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Holy balls. I'm throwing out that coffee brand. I read 0-1 believe it or not.
>>>Well, Shredder was outbooked... by its very self. Oh well.
>>>
>>> Albert
>>
>>Hey, and I thought your message was observant and brilliant ;) ..
>>
>>Najdorf is Russian Roulette IMHO - or at least it puts an incredible amount of
>>responsibility to the book cooks, as engines are prone to fall into all kind of
>>traps. It doesn't matter that Hydra found all moves by itself - why allow this
>>kind of gamble anyway? And there is some irony in having the Falcon-Shredder
>>setup repeated shortly later. While Hydra's playing strength is unknown to us
>>humble ordinary earthlings I can't understand why Shredder should enter this
>>kind of gamble anyway, that doesn't play into its own strengths at all.
>
> It may be an almost unsolvable work to check thousands of
> Shredder booklines having played some day by the program
> and to sort out those which should never be played again.
> Kurt
I don't get your point here. Of course this is difficult, though the real number
is much more likely in the dozens or hundreds, so it is doeable - but this is
about choice of battlegrounds.
Maybe you thought that my message was critical of the work of Shredder's book
author, but this was not what I was getting at. He is obviously extremely
competitive in these book battles in general, and Shredder got a few nice free
points in past events.
But just check all the games played in recent computer tournaments between top
entries with the Najdorf - then draw your own conclusions. I think there is an
obvious trend, but that's just my personal opinion. You can also adress this in
a different way - you have to face Shredder, Junior or Fritz with the white
pieces - what will they play? It's usually the Najdorf - why accept to be so
predictable? I also think there is no objective reason for this choice.
Peter
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