Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:01:18 08/24/04
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 2004 at 00:01:16, David Dahlem wrote: >On August 23, 2004 at 23:04:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 23, 2004 at 19:41:04, David Dahlem wrote: >> >>>On August 23, 2004 at 19:17:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On August 23, 2004 at 18:31:22, David Dahlem wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 18:23:55, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 18:19:06, David Dahlem wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 16:23:19, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 23, 2004 at 15:51:59, David Dahlem wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[D]6k1/1q3ppp/r7/1rp1P1n1/3p1P2/1P1R2PP/2Q4K/B4R2 b - - 0 1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>This position is taken from this thread: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?383382 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I let Crafty play white and ProDeo play black from this position at 40 moves in >>>>>>>>>80 minutes. Crafty liked 4.Qe2 for a long time, but finally switched to 4. Rdd1. >>>>>>>>>There are a lot of critical positions in this game, and ProDeo seems to >>>>>>>>>understand them all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Can any engine as white win or draw against ProDeo from >>>>>>>>>this position? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If ProDeo can't the blame is on ProDeo itself, the position is won for black. On >>>>>>>>a "40 moves in 80 minutes" level I doubt any engine will get away with a draw, >>>>>>>>else shame on ProDeo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>My best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Ed >>>>>>> >>>>>>>We have a controversy! Ed Schröder says Nxh3 wins, and Robert Hyatt says it's a >>>>>>>draw. Who is right. :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards >>>>>>>Dave >>>>>> >>>>>>Incorrect. :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Ed says it wins. I said it doesn't win. >>>>> >>>>>Hmmm... If it doesn't win, then it's a draw or loss, right? >>>> >>>>Are we talking long-term or for the current position. >>> >>>Long-term, of course. Does Nxh3 win, draw, or lose the game is the issue. Would >>>you play as white against ProDeo from this position, and post the game here? :-) >> >> >>First I can't play any commercial program myself since I don't have any and >>don't run any machines where they could run. :) Unless you have a linux >>version tucked away... >> >>This particular case is not a big issue with me. I personally believe that the >>+2 eval is wrong. And it would be interesting to keep the same position, but >>move a white piece or pawn and see what happens and if black would still play >>the same. IE maybe white bishop at d1 rather than a1. That changes the >>position although I have not given a lot of thought to this... >> >>I worry about huge scores that may or may not be right when things are as >>unclear as that position is. IE no forced tactics for a _long_ time... > >Ok, i was halfway teasing you about you playing ProDeo. Regarding the huge >score, it doesn't seem unclear to ProDeo, it's evaluation doesn't drop but >continues to gradually increase. Perhaps this is because it's a positional issue >and not a tactical issue. :-) > >BTW, ProDeo is not commercial. > >Regards >Dave > Poor choice of words on my part. I usually equate "commercial" with "windows-based"... Bob >> >> >> >>> >>>Regards >>>Dave >>> >>> >>>When I first looked at >>>>it, I thought "I don't see any reason that Nxh3 wins for black here..." And >>>>that was my original comment. Stuart found a mate that wasn't there after Nxh3 >>>>Kxh3, and then for fun I decided to analyze it a bit for myself and didn't see >>>>anything convincing. And my general rule is that if I toss a piece (Nxh3) I >>>>need to see _something_ concrete to play that against a computer, as otherwise >>>>it will probably turn from an interesting attacking position to a lost position, >>>>quickly. >>>> >>>>So while black may well win, I was immediately suspicious of a nearly +2 eval >>>>for black, in the absence of anything concrete... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Regards >>>>>Dave >>>>> >>>>>Crafty said it was a draw as did a >>>>>>couple of other programs. I just don't see a win yet, myself. nor a loss...
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.