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Subject: Re: The Brick Wall

Author: Andrew Williams

Date: 12:18:47 09/19/04

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On September 19, 2004 at 14:21:30, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 19, 2004 at 12:54:57, Andrew Williams wrote:
>
>>On September 19, 2004 at 11:10:14, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>Hi -- I am looking for 2 or 3 beta testers who would receive
>>>(full) source code to my program and in return would provide
>>>input and comments about improving the search. They would
>>>simply agree not to redistribute it and in fact discard it after
>>>a week or two of looking at it (and commenting.) The program is in C,
>>>5000 lines. The search and quiescence routines are 600 lines total.
>>>
>>>The reason I am considering this is due to hitting a brick wall at 249/300
>>>on WAC for several weeks now and knowing there are things I just cannot
>>>find or go further with. The above score is at 1 second per position on a
>>>1ghz P3 with a small transposition table. I am told that 270-300 is considered
>>>"good" for this time control on this test. On this same machine
>>>at the same time setting, with WAC, Crafty gets 270/300.
>>>
>>
>>It strikes me that comparing your program with crafty (or any other program for
>>that matter) based on 1 second searches in WAC is a bit weird. And a waste of
>>time. I'm pretty sure, for example, that my program would do worse at WAC 1
>>second searches than yours on that hardware and I certainly don't care either
>>way.
>
>Did you test it.
>If not how can you be sure about it?
>
>Without testing my guess based on the level of your program is that you do
>better than 250 solutions  in WAC at 1 second per move on stuart Hardware
>because I expect every program that is at the level of postmodernist to do it.
>

To be honest, it was a wild guess. PM gets 269 right in 1 second on my AMD 64
3200. Probably you're right and I was wrong to say "pretty sure". But it doesn't
matter at all.

>Crafty is not relatively strong in tactics of short searches and there are a lot
>of weaker programs who do better than it.
>
>If a program does significantly worse than Crafty in WAC at 1 second per move
>then there is a lot to improve in it's search.
>

That may be true, but I would reiterate that looking at its performance in WAC
is not going to help Stuart much in improving it. I don't even think it will
help much in improving its performance on other tactical tests, but that is just
a guess. I would strongly re-state my point: to learn what is wrong with a chess
program, it is better to play games than to test over and over on a test suite.
Even testing over and over on several test suites is not a good idea, in my
opinion.

Andrew



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