Author: Ulrich Tuerke
Date: 02:40:11 12/23/04
Go up one level in this thread
On December 23, 2004 at 02:27:13, Tony Werten wrote: >On December 22, 2004 at 16:43:58, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: > >>On December 22, 2004 at 14:31:15, Tony Werten wrote: >> >>>On December 22, 2004 at 12:23:01, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >>> >>>>On December 22, 2004 at 10:45:20, Rafael Vasquez wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hello, >>>>> >>>>>I´ve seen a lot of controversy on the "Crafty Clones" threads. >>>>> >>>>>But when Fritz implemented the null move algoritm in 1995, did beat >>>>>Deep Thought (Hong Kong). >>>>> >>>>>Afterwards several engines (or most?) are using the null move technique. >>>>> >>>>>Can we call them "Fritz Clones" and ban then forever? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>:))) >>>>> >>>>>Rafael >>>> >>>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Fritz was not the first with null move. >>>>i. e. Fritz could be considered a Nimzo clone and would be banned too. :) >>> >>>No. It was Frans Morsch who first implemented the nullmove as is now in use, it >>>was Chrilly Donninger who first published about it. >> >>No Tony, there are older publications. There is for instance the fine article by >>Goetsch and Campbell in "Computers, Chess and Cognition", eds. Marsland and >>Schaeffer, Springer 1990. >> >>This text had already contained all relevant suggestions, like recursive >>null-move, R>1 etc.. If I am not wrong, then they had been the first to suggest >>this thechnique. > >Well, that's a matter of opinion I think, that's why I wrote "as is now in use". >The papers you describe do use a nullmove, but pure as a threat detection >mechanism, while Frans used it as a part of search. No, they have introduced it mainly as a forward pruning technique. If you read the article which I have referenced, you'll see that all relevant suggestions have been already given. They had also made a few more suggestions which had not become standard and where I had experimented with for a while. It has certainly not been Chrilly who had been the 1st to suggest null move cuts; the idea is older. > >My personal feeling is that that's quite different ( not only because one I >think I could have come up with myself, and the other one most likely not) > >Debatable of coarse, also, this is based on the papers I read, you might be >talking about different papers :) > >> >>Chrilly had been the 1st to publish a bit of pseudo-code for this. > >Yes, and that has its own value of coarse, because that's what gave it to us, >not Frans' work. > >BTW, I seem to remember that Chrilly did not only give pseudo code, but also >wrote a simple chessprogram with the code included. ( Minimax ?) Yes, he has published the Minimax C-code via the CCS magazine. But as far as I remember Minimax had really been a minimum engine; I don't think that Null move search had been implemented. Uli > >Tony > >> >>Uli >> >>> >>>Tony >>> >>>> >>>>regards >>>>Andy
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