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Subject: Re: Brand new Fruit 2.0 "fast" (from 24.12.2004) on playchess.com

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 13:10:46 12/29/04

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On December 29, 2004 at 15:38:25, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 29, 2004 at 15:18:31, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On December 29, 2004 at 14:58:43, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On December 29, 2004 at 14:53:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 29, 2004 at 14:43:40, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Here is the current result of a little 10'+10" contest I have running:
>>>>>  Program       Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws
>>>>>1 Fruit_src   : 2850   66 149    52    83.7 %   2566   17.3 %
>>>>>2 Crafty-1917 : 2670   85  86    52    61.5 %   2588   26.9 %
>>>>>3 Glaurung    : 2660   85  89    53    60.4 %   2587   22.6 %
>>>>>4 Arasanx     : 2648   90  90    52    57.7 %   2594   19.2 %
>>>>>5 Movei       : 2572   81  93    52    45.2 %   2606   25.0 %
>>>>>6 Ges         : 2518   82  83    53    37.7 %   2605   30.2 %
>>>>>7 Natwarlal   : 2494  100  80    52    33.7 %   2612   21.2 %
>>>>>8 GreKo       : 2389  147  69    52    20.2 %   2627   13.5 %
>>>>>
>>>>>Conclusion:
>>>>>Fruit 2.0 looks pretty strong.
>>>>>The Ges version is 1.32, and I was a bit surprised at how well Ges performed.
>>>>
>>>>I am surprised by the bad result of movei.
>>>>It is certainly weaker than Fruit and probably also weaker than Crafty inspite
>>>>of the fact that I do not think that it is weaker than Crafty19.17 that is known
>>>>to be a weak version of Crafty but I think that it is stronger than Glaurung and
>>>>Arasan.
>>>>
>>>>public version even performed better than Crafty19.15 in a recent tournament
>>>>
>>>>see
>>>>http://www.playwitharena.co.uk/modules.php?name=ATL_League
>>>
>>>I think that there may have been a problem in recoginzing the movei book.  I
>>>will look into it.
>>
>>Movei, Fruit, and Natwarlal are not using a book -- not sure why yet.
>>In a 10'+10" contest, lack of a book should be very telling.  Not sure why Fruit
>>should still be pounding the stuffings out of everybody.
>
>In the case of movei you need to change the name of the book based on the
>version number of the program
>
>Version number is given in defs.h
>I guess that the version number that you have is 300(no significant difference
>in playing strength from 295 expected)
>
>A book is important for not losing the same game again and again.
>
>Fruit simply does not lose when you choose weak opponents for it so it does not
>need book.
>
>
>It is not the first time that a program does good results with no book and
>List is leading the rating list of the infinite loop with no book
>
>http://freehosting.hostrave.com/p/iggor/nil/NIL7_rat.txt
>
>books are simply not very important(at least books that are used by amateurs)
>and it seems that the only importance of them is to prevent losing the same game
>again and again.

I suspect with a time control of 10'+10" the book will be quite important.
I do not have data to prove it yet, but by observations, I see a 40% or so time
advantage for the base when a book is used in this format of time control.

Suppose (for instance) that program 'A' can find ten moves in the book and
program 'B' does not use a book.

Then program A will have 100 seconds bonus (no time needed for book moves) and
program B will lose the time needed to perform 10 moves (perhaps 4 or 5 minutes
as the first move often gets a big time bonus for being the first move).

That means that program A will have a much larger "disaster bank" for a fail-low
than program B does.



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