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Subject: Re: Fruit 2 and endgame play

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 18:15:00 01/12/05

Go up one level in this thread


On January 12, 2005 at 20:48:59, chandler yergin wrote:

>On January 12, 2005 at 20:09:57, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 12, 2005 at 19:51:12, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>On January 12, 2005 at 17:39:55, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 13:31:16, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 10:54:26, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 12, 2005 at 02:33:38, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In my (private) endgame testsuite Fruit scored better than some programs
>>>>>>>with tablebase support (e.g. Junior8 and Crafty).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Quite stunning - it seems,
>>>>>>>that excellent search depth compensates TBs!
>>>>>
>>>>> Your opinion.. Provide evidence!
>>>>>
>>>>> And my suite has some 5/6 piece
>>>>>>>positions were TB access is definitely advantage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IMO the 5-piece tablebases are just not that interesting and really not worth
>>>>>>that much in terms of elo.
>>>>>
>>>>>What are the Current ELO Ratings for Top Programs, including yours?
>>>>>
>>>>>THey represents exact play, and all positions possible are immediatly shown.
>>>>>What more can you expect?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> A little endgame knowledge can cover most of the
>>>>>>positions and be a lot faster too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Absolute NONSENSE!
>>>>
>>>>Not nonsense.
>>>>
>>>>In most of the position of 5 pieces or less than it computers can find the right
>>>>move with no tablebases.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>IN HOW MUCH TIME URI?
>>
>>In most of the positions they have no problem to find the right move at
>>tournament time control.
>
>Why Wait?
>Know IMMEDIATELY The EXACT MOVES to MATE OR DRAW!
>That, is what EGTB'S are for..
>To say an engine can find it... under Tournament conditions is a "SO WHAT!"
>
>
> and I think even in blitz there may be exceptions but if
>>you take random legal position they will win most positions that are possible to
>>win.
>>
>>programs with the right knowledge with no tablebases can usually win KQ vs KR
>>or KQR vs KP endgames with no problem and some trivial positions like KQR vs KP
>>are part of the positions that program may get in games so I cannot ignore them
>>in the discussion.
>>
>>program can draw most drawn KPP vs KP with no tablebases.
>
>Again.. "So What?"
>>
>>They may have problems in part of the positions of  KRP vs KR but tablebases
>>change nothing for most of the tablebases positions that they get in games.
>
>Opinion. again...

This has been verified by several experiments.



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