Author: Alan McCracken
Date: 02:43:30 01/16/05
Go up one level in this thread
On January 16, 2005 at 05:16:40, Mike Hood wrote: >On January 16, 2005 at 04:46:31, Alan McCracken wrote: > >>On January 16, 2005 at 04:21:27, Madhavan wrote: >> >>>On January 16, 2005 at 03:16:27, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>> >>>>To solve a game is to prove the result with best play for both sides. It's a >>>>term with precise meaning. >>>> >>>>Tic tac toe is solved (it's a draw). Connect Four is solved (it's a win for the >>>>first player). Chess and Checkers are not solved. It is theoretically possible >>>>to solve chess, you'd just have to do a very vey deep alpha-beta search. It is >>>>not possible to consider doing this now, and probably won't be for the >>>>foreseeable future. >>>> >>>>So what we are left to discuss is strength in practical play, which has nothing >>>>to do with solving chess. >>> >>> >>>playing the best move for both sides?what are you talking about? >>>how can you determine which one is the best move to select? >>>by running an infinite analysis and making a move?i would suggest you to play >>>some correspondance chess over the net >>>making the best move that can be made for both white and black may not end in >>>draw,in some cases white will have advantage over black >>>can you please post the game that has no slight errors on both sides >>> >>> >>>>bruce >> >>If both White and Black choose "Best Moves" to _ALL_ moves, then the game will >>end in a draw. However, if either White or Black play into a "Book" line which >>either side may have inferior moves, then the result isn't proof that that the >>game is _NOT_ a draw! White will win with the better lines or Black will win >>with the better lines...it depends which side took the _Inferior_ route. IE >>whoever makes a less than "Best Move" or at least "Best Move" relative to a >>given opening and assuming the rest are "Best Moves" the side that made less >>than the "Optimum" move will run the risk of lost. It's that simple. >> >>Best Moves _will_ result in a draw, no waffling. >> >>IGM;-) > >You can't prove your claim that playing the best moves for both sides will >result in a draw. Not yet, anyway. In order to prove or disprove your statement >chess has to be solved, which is many years away. In every given position with 5 >pieces on the board, playing the best move will either lead to a draw, a win for >white or a win for black. What will the result be of playing the best moves for >32 pieces in the starting position? The material is equal, the positions are >equal, but it's still not necessarily a draw. You don't have to solve chess to know it's a balanced position, and if kept balanced has to end in a draw...how can it be otherwise? The first move may be worth 20-40 rating points at best, this is not enough for White to FORCE a Win...and there is no way in hell Black has a forced win when he's down a tempo. (The 20-40 rtg. pts.) It *IS* a DRAW! I'm a very experienced chess player and have understood for a long time, niether side can force a win, mistakes must be made however slight. This is a FACT. Also chess has been demonstrated mathmatically to the best of my knowledge that it's a draw. I'm sorry I don't have the source. But a draw it is, and if you were a master, you would know I'm correct. Look at the board at intial setup...it's clear through logical intuition and induction it's a draw. Have fun refuting what appears to be an abstuse axiom to you gents who want to disagree with logic. People who think the "Perfect" game "Must" be played to prove the obvious. After 25 years, I know chess is perfect, and a draw is the only logical result. Yes...the game is a perfect balance at the beginning of a game and chess will remain a balance if the "Perfect Moves" are found by both sides. Chess is Tic-Tac-Toe, if you know the answers...but even as imperfect players this is still quite evident. I'll be proven to be correct in less than 50 years...like Einstein!;-)
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