Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Last Point.. Chess will NOT be 'solved' by Computers!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:54:39 01/18/05

Go up one level in this thread


On January 18, 2005 at 11:25:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 18, 2005 at 10:36:20, chandler yergin wrote:
>
>>Only delusional people, disconnected from reality think it can.
>>
>>End of discussion!
>>
>>Anyone want to refute this?
>>
>>http://stuffo.howstuffworks.com/chess1.htm
>>
>>In this tree, there are 20 possible moves for white. There are 20 * 20 = 400
>>possible moves for black, depending on what white does. Then there are 400 * 20
>>= 8,000 for white. Then there are 8,000 * 20 = 160,000 for black, and so on. If
>>you were to fully develop the entire tree for all possible chess moves, the
>>total number of board positions is about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
>>000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
>>000,000,000,000, or 10^120, give or take a few. That's a very big number. For
>>example, there have only been 10^26 nanoseconds since the Big Bang. There are
>>thought to be only 10^75 atoms in the entire universe. When you consider that
>>the Milky Way galaxy contains billions of suns, and there are billions of
>>galaxies, you can see that that's a whole lot of atoms.
>
>First, your numbers are wrong.  We can store a chess position in about 160 bits,
>which means 2^160 positions total.  Way less than 10^120.  Second, nothing says
>we can only store one piece of information per atom.  Thirdly, alpha/beta
>doesn't require that we even search _every_ possible position, only about
>sqrt(P) need be actually searched, which is 2^80 position.

I disagree with the last point.

By that logic you can solve KRB vs KR with no tablebases by only searching
sqrt(P) nodes when P is the number of KRP vs KR position.

Can you do it?

I do not say that searching all positions is needed but I see no proof that sqrt
is enough.

Uri

Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.