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Subject: Re: KB*KP - endgames - wrong again?

Author: Peter Fendrich

Date: 00:22:57 02/02/05

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On February 01, 2005 at 13:21:54, Thomas Mayer wrote:

>Hi Peter,
>
>On February 01, 2005 at 13:09:56, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>
>>On February 01, 2005 at 13:01:56, Eiko Bleicher wrote:
>>
>>>On February 01, 2005 at 12:58:24, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 01, 2005 at 12:20:30, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>just a hypotetic question:
>>>>>Let's think that the bishop side has several bishops, all of the same colour.
>>>>>The question is now: when not any of the bishops alone can stop the pawn is it
>>>>>possible to create a position where they all together can stop it anyway ?
>>>>>Or is it sufficent to say that it is a win when the lone pawn was checked in the
>>>>>TBs against each bishop and both checks say that it is won ?
>>>>>
>>>>>I hope you understand what I mean -> I can not really explain it to myself... :)
>>>>>
>>>>>a possible example:
>>>>>
>>>>>[D] 3K2b1/7P/8/8/8/8/b2k4/8 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>without the bishop on b2 this would be of course won and TBs give back a win
>>>>>when we check the pawn against both bishops... and of course according to five
>>>>>man this position is also won... the question is if it is possible to create a
>>>>>position with the above mentioned circomstances which is draw ?!
>>>>>
>>>>>Greets, Thomas
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S.: You see, I am working on Quarks endgame... :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I am not sure if this is the example that you look for but 2 bishop can stop the
>>>>pawn by Be8 pin when one bishop cannot do it.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>[D]k7/5P2/2b3K1/8/b7/8/8/8 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Hello Uri,
>>>
>>>now taking the pawn to the f-file is cheating :) I've been trying on h and
>>>didn't find such cool things :)
>>Here is one.
>>[D]8/2K5/8/7P/8/8/6k1/7b w - - 0 1
>>White will win but insert a bishop at f3 with draw.
>
>your examples are not what I did search... Look at Uri's example. In your case
>the f3 bishop would always draw even if the other one is missing.
>At the moment I think about examples where white must capture the bishop to win
>and can not when it is protected... hm...
>
>For what that is good for ? Well, at the moment I program internal node
>recognizers like Ernst Heinz described... And when it returns a result this have
>to be as correct as possible... else the search will get crazy...
>It's fun... :)
>
>Greets, Thomas


Ok, each bishop by itself can't draw but together they can.
Must it be a- or h-pawn? Otherwise there are many exmples.
Here is one with the h-pawn:
8/6K1/4b1b1/5k1P/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
This is a draw position. Remove one bishop and it's a win for white.
Don't tell me that this is wrong!
/Peter



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