Computer Chess Club Archives




Subject: Re: Most brilliant novelty from cct7 Witchess-Arasan

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 16:26:35 02/16/05

Go up one level in this thread

On February 16, 2005 at 18:52:55, Arturo Ochoa wrote:

>On February 16, 2005 at 15:20:31, Uri Blass wrote:
>>On February 16, 2005 at 13:58:21, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>On February 14, 2005 at 19:56:56, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 19:23:07, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>>>>Hi Arturo,
>>>>>> I did not tune the book against Movei.... I tune a book for a specific
>>>>>> engine. Anthony accepted my help and I did my best in 2 short months. Of
>>>>>> course, how could you understand that?
>>>>>we had that discussion already in several forums. Uri has his point of view
>>>>>(which is IMO totally wrong) and will not change that... senseless to discuss...
>>>>>You might remember CCT4 -> Since then I had never again such a fantastic tuned
>>>>>book for Quarks needs - it was the work of Leo Dijksman which he had done in
>>>>>several month with thousands of games and analysis. Of course it was Quark which
>>>>>was playing that tourney but it had a fantastic book that lead it to positions
>>>>>it can play. And that is what a good book cooker should do, he should help the
>>>>>engine to end up in positions after the opening where it knows what it should
>>>>>do. The more time he can spent on that the better it will do.
>>>>>Vincencts 700 Elo might be a bit to high, but 300 is for sure a good number -
>>>>>the difference between a random book and a well tuned book. Especially the
>>>>>weaker or more unbalanced your engine is, the more it is important to have a
>>>>>perfect book.
>>>>It suggests that the engine is important because if the engine is not balanced
>>>>you may solve the problem by doing it balance.
>>>Every component of software is important including the book.
>>>> Maybe for a weak engine even Vincents 700 is possible...
>>>>I think that if the engine is too weak no book will help it unless you predict
>>>>perfectly the opoenent moves.
>>>>I do not see how you can do tscp 700 elo better by a book and tscp is not the
>>>>weakest engine in the world.
>>>>I guess that a book for weaker engines will be even less productive.
>>>How do you know that? What are you proofs? You only guess  and how can you
>>>support this?
>>>>If someone want to prove me wrong he is invited to try to improve tscp rating of
>>>>1699 in the WBEC site to 2400(slightly better than Amateur,Betsy,Leila)
>>>>The rating should hold also against new opponents(that were still not released)
>>>>because when I talk about book the idea is not to have killer book that work
>>>>only against specific opponents with known books that is of course possible
>>>>after lot of work when you put win after win in the book.
>>>No, you are not so important so somebody wastes his valuable time in your absurd
>>>contrdictions. :) It is enough to point your nonsense here.
>>>What you dont tunderstand is the Vincent's sense. Because your lack of
>>>credibility, he just put a extreme point. You think that a no-book engine can
>>>wint a Title.Prove that in Tournaments.
>>I did not say that my engine can do it so there is nothing that I need to prove.
>>I never claimed that movei can win a title.
>>I do not think that it can do it today and even if I will think sometimes in the
>>future that it can do it I plan to say nothing about it before it wins.
>On the contrary, you _dont_ have anything to prove because you cannot support
>your suppositions on real facts. You _deny_ what you have been repeating for
>years since you cannot hold your weak position.

You simply misunderstood me.
I never claimed that a better book cannot help movei to score better.

I remember that I said that book is not important but I did not mean to your
of course a good book may be exactly what  strong but not very strong engine
need to win a tournament but if the engine is very strong it has good chances to
win even without book.

It is possible that zappa needed exactly your book to win CCT7(I do not know)
but shredder9 had good chances to do it even with movei book so from my point of
view movei did not win the tournament because it is weaker than shredder9 and
not because of lack of good book(this is the way that I prefer to look at


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