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Subject: Re: the reason why Anaconda cant draw against Hydra...

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 10:37:42 03/01/05

Go up one level in this thread


On March 01, 2005 at 09:40:38, Gabor Szots wrote:

>On March 01, 2005 at 08:47:11, Thomas Lagershausen wrote:
>
>>[D]2r2r1k/1bqnb1pp/p2pB3/1p1Pp3/2n5/5NNP/PP3PP1/R1BQR1K1 b - - 4 20
>>
>>...is the lack of positional knowledge. This counts for most of curent
>>chessprograms.
>>
>>In the last round of Paderborn Anaconda reaches this position with the black
>>pieces against Hydra and lost without any real resistance.
>>
>>But it is not difficult to see that black has to play against the weak pawn on
>>d5 to get enough counterplay. So, the sacrifice of the exchange by 20...Nc5 or
>>20...Nf6 give black the chance to free his game and equalize the position.
>>
>>Please notice that my intention is to help the programers and not to show how
>>weak chessprograms are playing chess.
>>
>>Have fun and improve your chessprograms.
>>
>>TL
>
>
>Hi Thomas,
>
>Shredder 9 has been analyzing the position now for 10 minutes, and cannot come
>up with your idea (see below).
>I (a 2050 l player) think the case is not so simple. The exchange sacrifice
>may free the position but equalize? What does black get in exchange? I am sure
>that sooner or later the material disadvantage will tell.
>
>
>2r2r1k/1bqnb1pp/p2pB3/1p1Pp3/2n5/5NNP/PP3PP1/R1BQR1K1 b - -
>
>Engine: Shredder 9 UCI (48 MB)
>von Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
>
>9/24   0:01   -0.40    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.La3 Sf6 (258.472) 173
>
>9/24   0:01   -0.39++  1...Lf6 (331.065) 170
>
>9/24   0:02   -0.39    1...Lf6 2.Se4 (429.288) 168
>
>10/23  0:04   -0.63    1...Lf6 2.Se4 Tce8 3.b3 Sc5 4.Sxc5 (683.780) 167
>
>10/23  0:04   -0.62++  1...Scb6 (772.321) 167
>
>10/27  0:04   -0.62    1...Scb6 2.Lg5 Ld8 3.Tc1 Sc4 4.b3 (789.646) 167
>
>10/27  0:04   -0.61++  1...Tce8 (809.024) 168
>
>10/27  0:05   -0.37    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Sg5 Lxg5 4.Lxg5 Sc5
>                       5.Tc1 Db8 6.Txc5 dxc5 7.Se4 Dc7 (895.144) 168
>
>10/27  0:06   -0.36++  1...Tb8 (1.039.982) 168
>
>10/27  0:06   -0.33    1...Tb8 2.b3 Sc5 3.bxc4 Sxe6 4.dxe6 Lxf3
>                       5.gxf3 Dxc4 6.Db3 (1.068.264) 169
>
>11/22  0:07   -0.51    1...Tb8 2.b3 Scb6 3.La3 b4 4.Tc1 Dd8
>                       5.Lxb4 Lxd5 6.Lxd5 (1.331.286) 169
>
>11/23  0:08   -0.50++  1...Scb6 (1.516.564) 169
>
>11/25  0:09   -0.37    1...Scb6 2.Lg5 Txf3 3.Lxe7 Txg3
>                       4.fxg3 Lxd5 5.Dg4 Dc2 6.Lxd5 Dc5+
>                       7.Kh2 Dxd5 (1.655.405) 171
>
>11/25  0:09   -0.36++  1...Tce8 (1.689.495) 171
>
>11/25  0:10   -0.11    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Sg5 Lxg5 4.Lxg5 Sc5
>                       5.Tc1 Db8 6.Txc5 dxc5 7.Se4 Da8
>                       8.Sc3 (1.813.985) 172
>
>12/26  0:12   -0.36--  1...Tce8 2.b3 (2.235.323) 172
>
>12/26  0:13   -0.45    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Se4 Sf6 4.Sxf6 Lxf6
>                       5.La3 Sc8 6.Tc1 Db6 7.Dd2 Le7 8.Lb2 (2.408.105) 173
>
>13/27  0:27   -0.21    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Le3 Sf6 4.Tc1 Dd8
>                       5.Sg5 Lxd5 6.Sf5 h6 (4.592.841) 167
>
>14/27  0:38   -0.46--  1...Tce8 2.b3 (6.363.561) 166
>
>14/27  0:41   -0.47    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Se4 Sc5 4.Sxc5 dxc5
>                       5.Lg5 Dd6 6.Lxe7 Txe7 7.Txe5 Lxd5
>                       8.Txd5 (6.980.965) 168
>
>15/36  1:30   -0.36    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Se4 Sf6 4.Sfg5 Lxd5
>                       5.Lxd5 Sbxd5 6.Sxf6 Sxf6 7.Se6 Dc3
>                       8.Ld2 (14.885.124) 164
>
>16/34  2:22   -0.52    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Se4 Sf6 4.Sfg5 Sxe4
>                       5.Sxe4 Dd8 6.Le3 Lh4 7.Dd3 Lc8
>                       8.Lxc8 (23.278.215) 163
>
>17/35  5:11   -0.68    1...Tce8 2.b3 Scb6 3.Le3 La8 4.Se4 Sf6
>                       5.Sxf6 Lxf6 6.Dd2 e4 7.Tac1 Db7
>                       8.Tc6 Txe6 9.Lxb6 Tee8 10.Sg5 Le5 (50.524.299) 162

I have similiar rating to you that means that I understand almost nothing in
chess relative to computers

Here is anlysis of Fruit2

Fruit suggested Nf6 at depths 13-14 but after deeper search changed its mind.

New game,
2r2r1k/1bqnb1pp/p2pB3/1p1Pp3/2n5/5NNP/PP3PP1/R1BQR1K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Fruit 2.0:

1...Nd2 2.Bxd2
  +-  (3.15)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Na3 2.bxa3
  +-  (2.52)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
1...Na5
  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
1...b4
    (-0.49)   Depth: 1/4   00:00:00
1...a5
    (-0.57)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
1...Ra8
    (-0.58)   Depth: 1/8   00:00:00
1...Rce8
    (-0.62)   Depth: 1/8   00:00:00
1...Rce8 2.Nf5
    (-0.35)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6
  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00
1...Bf6 2.Ne4 Be7
    (-0.32)   Depth: 3/13   00:00:00
1...Bf6 2.Ne4 Rce8 3.Qd3
  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 4/13   00:00:00
1...Bf6 2.Ne4 Rce8 3.b3 Ncb6
  =  (0.06)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Bg5 Nc5
  =  (-0.24)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Re2 Nc5 4.Ne4 Nxe6 5.dxe6
  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  44kN
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Be3 Nc5 4.Rc1 Bf6 5.Bxc5 dxc5
  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:01  123kN
1...Rcd8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Be3 Nc5 4.Rc1 Nbd7 5.Bxd7 Qxd7 6.Bxc5 dxc5
  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 7/21   00:00:01  196kN
1...Rcd8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Be3 Nc5 4.Rc1 Bf6 5.Ne4
  =  (0.06)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:01  391kN
1...Ra8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ne4 Nc5 4.Nxc5 Qxc5 5.Be3
  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:01  604kN
1...Rb8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ne4 Nc5 4.Nxc5 Qxc5 5.Be3
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 8/24   00:00:01  765kN
1...Rb8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ne4 Nf6 4.Nxf6 Bxf6 5.Re4 Qc3
  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 9/28   00:00:02  1175kN
1...Rb8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ne4 Nf6 4.Nxf6 Bxf6 5.Re4 Qc3 6.Be3
  =  (0.03)   Depth: 10/28   00:00:04  1953kN
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ng5 Bxg5 4.Bxg5 Nf6 5.Rc1 Qb8 6.Bxf6 Rxf6
  =  (-0.11)   Depth: 10/28   00:00:04  2745kN
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ng5 Bxg5 4.Bxg5 Nf6 5.Rc1 Qb8 6.Bxf6 Rxf6
  =  (-0.11)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:05  4724kN
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ng5 Nf6 4.Bd2 Bxd5 5.Bxd5 Nfxd5 6.Ne6 Qc6 7.Nxf8 Rxf8
  =  (-0.11)   Depth: 12/32   00:00:11  9939kN
1...Rce8 2.b3 Ncb6 3.Ne4 Nf6 4.Nxf6 Bxf6 5.Be3 Bc8 6.Qc1 Qb7 7.Qc6 e4
  =  (0.20)   Depth: 13/34   00:00:21  19180kN
1...Nf6 2.Ng5 Nb6 3.Nf5 g6 4.Bxc8 Rxc8 5.Ne6 Qd7 6.Nxe7 Qxe7 7.Bh6 Bxd5 8.Bg7+
Kg8
  =  (0.09)   Depth: 13/36   00:01:28  80332kN
1...Nf6 2.Ng5 Nb6 3.Nf5 g6 4.Bxc8 Rxc8 5.Ne6 Qd7 6.Nxe7 Qxe7 7.Bh6 Bxd5 8.Bg7+
Kg8
  =  (0.09)   Depth: 14/38   00:02:02  111872kN
1...Nf6 2.Ne4 Nb6 3.Nxf6 Bxf6 4.Be3 Nc4 5.Bxc8 Qxc8 6.Bg5 Nxb2 7.Qb3 Nc4 8.Bxf6
Rxf6
  =  (0.23)   Depth: 15/43   00:04:42  261674kN
1...Qd8 2.Nf5 Rc5 3.Nxe7 Qxe7 4.Bg5 Nf6 5.b3 Nb6 6.Be3 Rxd5 7.Bxd5 Nfxd5 8.Rc1
Qe6 9.Bxb6 Nxb6
  =  (0.17)   Depth: 15/50   00:07:30  412814kN
1...Ncb6 2.Ne4 Qd8 3.b3 Nf6 4.Bxc8 Qxc8 5.Bg5 Qd7 6.Nxf6 Bxf6 7.Bxf6 Rxf6 8.Qd3
Bxd5
  =  (0.14)   Depth: 15/56   00:09:52  542358kN

(,  01.03.2005)



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