Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: IT Appears Both Qe2 and Nc4 are Good Moves.

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 15:06:44 05/13/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 13, 2005 at 12:30:33, John Merlino wrote:

>On May 12, 2005 at 20:50:32, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On May 12, 2005 at 11:39:38, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>On May 12, 2005 at 02:37:23, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>
>>>>Nxf7 is tempting but I believe Qe2 is stronger, with a killer threat of Nxf7!
>>>>next move.
>>>>
>>>>This position is taken from a blitz game I played tonight.
>>>>
>>>>[D]r2qkbnr/1b3ppp/p3p3/2ppN3/3P1B2/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QR1K1 w kq - 0 12
>>>>
>>>>Terry
>>>
>>>CM9_R1 on a P4-2.4 never considers either moves, and prefers Na4 with a good
>>>score:
>>>
>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>0:00	1/4	1.04	13734		12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Qg4 g6 14.Nd3
>>>0:00	1/5	1.12	23697		12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Nd3 Be7 14.Qg4 Bf6
>>>0:00	1/6	1.21	84363		12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Qg4 Qf6 14.Nd3
>>>					h5 15.Qg3
>>>0:01	1/7	1.04	203765		12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Qh5 g6 14.Qf3 Rc8
>>>					15.Be3 Qf6 16.Bxc5 Qxf3 17.Nxf3
>>>					Rxc5
>>>0:05	1/8	1.03	772074		12.dxc5 Bxc5 13.Nd3 Be7 14.Qg4
>>>					Nf6 15.Qxg7 Rg8 16.Qh6
>>>0:08	1/8	1.16	1323433		12.Na4 cxd4 13.Qxd4 Rc8 14.Qa7
>>>					Qe7 15.Nf3 Qb4 16.Rac1
>>>0:12	1/9	1.19	1904384		12.Na4 cxd4 13.Qxd4 f6 14.Nd3 e5
>>>					15.Nac5 Qb6 16.Qa4+ Bc6 17.Qa3
>>>0:25	2/10	1.22	4168922		12.Na4 cxd4 13.Qxd4 f6 14.Nb6 fxe5
>>>					15.Bxe5 Ne7 16.Nxa8 Bxa8 17.Bxg7
>>>1:40	2/11	1.41	18471216	12.Na4 cxd4 13.Qxd4 Qa5 14.Bd2
>>>					Qb5 15.Re3 f6 16.Rb3 fxe5 17.Rxb5
>>>					exd4 18.Rxb7
>>>6:28	2/12	1.64	76297720	12.Na4 c4 13.Qh5 g6 14.Qf3 Rc8
>>>					15.Nc5 Bxc5 16.dxc5 Qe7 17.Rad1
>>>					Rxc5 18.Ng4 d4
>>>
>>>jm
>>
>>
>>I still would go with Qe2!
>>
>>Look at play, and see if the computers will refute this.
>>
>>
>>1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 e6 4.exd5 cxd5 5.Bb5+ Nc6 6.Nf3 Bd7 7.Bf4 a6
>>8.Bxc6 bxc6 9.O-O c5 10.Re1 Bc6 11.Ne5 Bb7 12.Qe2 Nf6 13.Nxf7 Kxf7
>>14.Qxe6+ Kg6 15.Re3 h6 16.Rg3+ Kh7 17.Qf7 Bc8 18.Rg6 Ng4 19.Nxd5 Ra7
>>20.Nf6+ Qxf6 21.Rxf6 Rxf7 22.Rxf7 cxd4 23.Rc7 Bb4 24.h3 Nf6 25.Be5 Ba5
>>26.Rc4 Re8 27.Bxf6 gxf6 28.Rxd4 ++-
>>
>>[D]2b1r3/7k/p4p1p/b7/3R4/7P/PPP2PP1/R5K1 b - - 0 28
>>
>>Terry
>
>I cannot argue with your line at all. Playing all the way through it (relatively
>quickly), I can find no obvious improvements for either side.
>
>However, CM9_R1 analyzes the final position with a score of +1.65 for White,
>which is only 0.01 better than the evaluation for 12.Na4 above:
>
>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>0:00	1/5	1.72	8313		28...Re2 29.Rc4 Bb7 30.Rd1 Bb6
>0:00	2/6	1.84	23589		28...Re2 29.Rc4 Be6 30.Rc6 Be1
>					31.Kf1
>0:00	2/6	1.81	48442		28...Bc7 29.Rad1 Rg8 30.R1d3 Be6
>					31.Rc3
>0:00	2/7	1.72	90635		28...Bc7 29.Rad1 Rg8 30.Rh4 Be5
>					31.c3 Bb7
>0:01	2/8	1.77	208932		28...Bc7 29.Rad1 Rg8 30.Kf1 Be6
>					31.c4 Be5 32.Re4
>0:02	3/9	1.74	507471		28...Bc7 29.Rad1 Re7 30.c4 Rg7
>					31.Kf1 a5 32.g4 Be5
>0:08	3/10	1.78	1776311		28...Bc7 29.c3 Rg8 30.Re1 Be5 31.Rh4
>					Bf5 32.g3 Bd6 33.Rd1
>0:10	3/10	1.63	2211053		28...Re2 29.Rc4 Bd7 30.Rf4 Kg6
>					31.Rd1 Be6 32.Ra4 Bb6 33.Rxa6 Bxf2+
>					34.Kf1
>0:14	3/11	1.63	3055320		28...Re2 29.Rc1 Bb6 30.Rf4 f5 31.Kf1
>					Rd2 32.Ke1 Rd6 33.Rd1 Rc6
>0:24	4/12	1.61	5469654		28...Re2 29.Rc1 Bb6 30.Rf4 Kg6
>					31.Kf1 Rd2 32.Ke1 Rd5 33.Rd1 Re5+
>					34.Kf1 Bf5
>1:05	5/13	1.70	16270274	28...Re2 29.Rc1 Bb6 30.Rf4 f5 31.Kf1
>					Rd2 32.Ke1 Rd5 33.Rd1 Rb5 34.b4 Be6
>3:58	6/14	1.65	59675268	28...Re2 29.Rc1 Bb6 30.Rf4 Kg7
>					31.Kf1 Rd2 32.Ke1 Rd5 33.Rd1 Rb5
>					34.b4 Re5+ 35.Kf1 Bf5
>
>jm

Hi John, thanks for the second look.

I feel programs need to consider Qe2 with the idea of Nxf7! seriously but the
problem is depth it appears. On further looking at 12.Na4! I see it may be
better overall but both lead to wins, and I think Qe2 is more strategical, as
well as tactical, it has a plan, and that is where computers are still a bit
weak.

Still Nc4! seems it may win tactically with more force. Here's an improvement in
the Nc4 line.

12.Na4 c4 13.Qh5 g6 14.Qf3 Rc8 15.Nc5 Bxc5 16.dxc5 Qe7 17.Qc3!

[D]2r1k1nr/1b2qp1p/p3p1p1/2PpN3/2p2B2/2Q5/PPP2PPP/R3R1K1 b k - 0 17

Terry





This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.