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Subject: Re: HIARCS 9 and Anti-Chess

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 15:23:50 05/23/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 23, 2005 at 17:56:18, Torstein Hall wrote:

>On May 23, 2005 at 07:54:28, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 23, 2005 at 07:29:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On May 23, 2005 at 05:39:00, Darrel Briley wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 23, 2005 at 05:13:04, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 23, 2005 at 00:08:52, Darrel Briley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 22, 2005 at 19:28:53, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 22, 2005 at 18:53:07, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I am thinking chess is in a coin.
>>>>>>>>Human beings for ever playing in one face.
>>>>>>>>Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess".
>>>>>>>>Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to clouse a little door behind.
>>>>>>>>You must enter across this doar. Forget the front.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Congrats Pablo! This was an nice game, but last after 15 losing games.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You losing 1 : 16 against Hiarcs 9. I seems Hiarcs 9 is very strong against
>>>>>>>Anti-Chess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Or?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ed:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I assume the reason you see such things on Playchess.com and not ICC is due to
>>>>>>ICC's rules prohibiting playing the same line(s) repeatedly against an engine
>>>>>>until you FINALLLLLY get a win.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not know about a rule in ICC that prohibit playing the same lines
>>>>>repeatedly against an engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>http://www.chessclub.com/help/abuse
>>>>
>>>>7. Playing the same line over and over against a computer, to gain rating
>>>>points. We will edit your rating to whatever we feel is reasonable if you do
>>>>this.
>>>>
>>>>Accounts that abuse, distort, or cheat the rating system on ICC may have the
>>>>ratings adjusted, may be added to the "disconnectors" list (causing immediate
>>>>loss upon disconnection), may be prevented from playing rated games, or may lose
>>>>their ICC account entirely. These actions will be taken at the sole discretion
>>>>of the ICC administrators.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>This rule is talking only about trying to get rating
>>>
>>>People are still allowed to play the same line over and over in friendly games
>>>against computers.
>>>
>>>I also think that the rule is not fair.
>>>
>>>It means that playing the same line over and over against an human to gain
>>>rating points is allowed and playing against convenient human opponent is also a
>>>trick to get rating points.
>>>
>>>If the target is to do the rating fair then it is better to forbid people to
>>>play for rating except playing in open swiss tournaments when you cannot choose
>>>your opponent.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>I can add that the rule is also against programmers.
>>
>>Suppose that a programmer implemented some new learning function in order to
>>prevent humans to earn rating by repeating the same line again and again.
>>
>>How can the programmer check if the learning works when humans are not allowed
>>to try repeating the same line again and again.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I am not sure, but I believe you misunderstand the reason behind this rule. The
>idea is to stop playing obvious programs that are malfunctioning. I have
>encountered programs that have stopped moving when it get out of book etc. I
>could have earned quite a lot of rating at ICC that way....


What better way to motivate the programmer than to punish his flawed creation
without mercy?  I think this should be encouraged rather than discouraged.  It
gives the programmer motivation to make a better product.  I would think a
programmer would want to know where the bugs are in his code.  The "anti-chess"
player is doing the programmer a service (even if unintentionally), IMHO.

This should be seen as an opportunity by the programmer.  It's free "debbugging"
help from essentially self-interested parties.  How often do you get a nice
symbiosis like that?  Not often.

Is this not the very reason programmers crave games with GMs?  If a GM is
pounding the stuffing out of their program, they want to fix that, yes?  They
want the machine to be respected by strong humans.  In a similar way, if weak
humans can scupper your creation, you want to know about that as well.  You
wan't to eliminate defeat from cheapos, too.  That's how you make a champion --
eliminating fundamental mistakes and flaws.



>
>Torstein



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