Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 17:13:12 06/16/05
Go up one level in this thread
On June 16, 2005 at 10:31:47, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 15, 2005 at 09:50:53, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On June 15, 2005 at 03:08:46, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 15, 2005 at 01:17:12, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>On June 15, 2005 at 01:08:47, Tony Nichols wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 15, 2005 at 00:57:05, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 15, 2005 at 00:05:51, Tony Nichols wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 14, 2005 at 22:35:26, William Sorin wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 14, 2005 at 22:19:29, Mark Ryan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Has this been the wrong metaphor all along? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Years ago, Kasparov predicted that the future of chess was in "Advanced Chess" >>>>>>>>>(people playing chess with computer assistance). Now the Freestyle Tournament >>>>>>>>>seems to be confirming this prediction. In the words of Chessbase, " ... we can >>>>>>>>>draw first tentative conclusions. One is that the most powerful chess playing >>>>>>>>>entity on the planet is a GM armed with a computer." >>>>>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2453 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>We are the tool-manufacturing species. We create the tools, and we shape their >>>>>>>>>purpose. In Vancouver, the trains in the SkyTrain system have no drivers, but >>>>>>>>>there is a central control room where human beings monitor everything carefully >>>>>>>>>and react to unforeseen emergencies. The level of human involvement has been >>>>>>>>>reduced, but it is still there; in fact, it has been isolated to a higher level. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No matter how strong the chess machines become, will they always be stronger >>>>>>>>>with a GM at the controls? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Mark >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I wonder then if a 2600 Grandmaster using Fritz could beat any of the Top Ten >>>>>>>>human Grandmasters without computer assistance? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I would expect a 2600 GM with chessbase and Fritz to crush any human player >>>>>>>without. Even at the very top many games are decided by tactical mistakes. Also, >>>>>>> the ability to research an opening at the board would be very useful. >>>>>>>Regards >>>>>>>Tony >>>>>> >>>>>>I believe Kasparov could defeat a 2600 rated player, even with the assistance of >>>>>>a top program and top PC computer, as long as he knows what he's dealing with. >>>>>> >>>>>>I'd like to see such a match, but unfortunately he's retired:( >>>>>> >>>>>>In a sense he was dealing with mutiple GM's when he played Deep Blue, and his >>>>>>loss was in the six game match was a fluke, one we'll never see proven >>>>>>otherwise:( >>>>>> >>>>>>Too Bad, >>>>>> Terry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> His match against Deep Blue was indeed a fluke. Unfortunately, Kasparov would >>>>>have a very hard time against a human/computer team. He is known for >>>>>complications and out calculating his opponent. This would play right into a >>>>>computers strength. He has shown that he is vulnerable in passive positions >>>>>where he can not get the initiative. So, this strategy is not good either. I >>>>>would think that someone like Kramnik or a younger Karpov would have the best >>>>>chances, but I still favor the human/comp team. >>>>>Regards >>>>>Tony >>>> >>>>You underestimate Kasparov, and is noted to be the most computer-like GM that >>>>ever lived! >>>> >>>>If Kasparov was prepared, I think you might be surprised..The reason is if he >>>>handles the tactics, his stategy will be superior. >>>> >>>>Would it be tough? Yes, it would. But the GM at 2600+ may be overconfident and >>>>get hammered! >>>> >>>>Terry >>> >>>I think that you underestimate 2600 players. >>> >>>Kasparov did not win a match against Junior without human help and with human >>>help the machines may play significantly better. >>> >>>Uri >> >>What human help?? > >My point is that if kasparov failed to win Junior in a match then 2600 together >with Junior can probably beat him. > >Uri Uri it was an exibition match and Kasprov had better positions in every game, the first being a disaster for Junior, only 27 moves! Then in one stupid game he played carelessly and turned a win into a draw then a loss. Why? Damned if I know? Overconfidence, I pressume. The last game was a win for Black (Kasparov) and he offered a draw, as he lost confidence:( This is really tragic. He definately outplayed Kramnik who begged for draw when things went wrong, Kramnik is even more careless than Kasparov most of the time. His win in a match in 2000 was as much luck as skill. He _never_ gave Kasparov a rematch....chickensh!t... Terry
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