Author: Martin Slowik
Date: 00:56:37 07/07/05
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Hi Eelco, hi Steve, On July 06, 2005 at 20:58:10, Steve B wrote: >>That is a nice machine Steve. Would it be expensive if it were on E-Bay? > >the Diablo is somewhat rare and i dont remember seeing one on Ebay >but perhaps there might have been one or two over the years I think I have seen a Scorpio and a few Super Experts but not a Diablo. However, I'm not as long watching eBay as you, dear Steve... >with Ebay these days it is impossible to predict with any degree of certainty >what a chess computer will sell for > >it could sell for $10 or $1000 but i think about 1000 Euro is right I paid a tad more for mine. I suspect on eBay these days in good condition it wouldn't sell under 1200 Euro -- but who knows? >the Novag Super Expert C6 a similiar computer in cosmetics but weaker in >strength(1950 Elo) sold privately just recently for 800 Euro Yes, this one is still missing in my collection and 800 Euros seem for me to much at the moment. In particular since this year already the Resurrection, a Dallas 68020, a Renaissance board and most recently a Genius 68030 found their way into my shelves... :) Btw, I think the Diablo is stronger than indicated by the SSDF. All Novags seem to have played too many games with not perfect settings for Comp-Comp games, imho (and maybe too many against Mephistos... ;) ). Anyway, my personal feeling is that rather than the 2005 Elo points, the true strength is above 2100, especially for humans since Kittinger creations rather tend to stirr things up on the board (which is more interesting anyway). Another remark re the SSDF list: Although I know that most people consider it the non plus ultra, I believe the more interesting benchmark are Elo lists for shorter time controls, i.e. 30s/move. The reason is quite simple: most people very likely use their computer for short games. Or when did you play the last tournament game against a dedicated unit? ;) So in the long run (there are not enough games played yet) the list http://www.schachcomputer.info/html/aktivschach_elo_liste.html for me personally will become the most important reference. > Ehlvest >>would still have superior chances against the fastest PDAs or Pocket PCs I >>think. I would recommend a match against a calculator now, when that still is >>possible, most programmable calculators are still sold with 4 MHz processors but >>that will soon change. > >this is so sad i think >can you imagine devoting your life to chess and knowing that you can perhaps >beat a PDA..maybe? Well not much better than devoting your life to the Tour de France and permanently being slower that all those motorbikes... ;) >i know some feel that this is no shame and in the future humans must play humans >and machines must play machines and everything is perfect then in the world > >but i do not agree >chess was always admired as a thinking game,creative,artistic and all those >elements that seperates it from other games >to now come to the sad realization that those who play this beautiful game at >its best can now be defeated by a calculator is sad > >it takes away from the game and what it was thought to be..IMO > >Dejected Regards >Steve In the end it apparently turns out that the search tree is not large enough for being accessible only to fuzzy approaches (as apparently Go for instance at least at the moment is). On the oter hand I find it astonishing that humans can build machines (dedicated chess computers) which are capable of calculating 200 million nodes in a second... Scientific Progress Regards, Martin
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