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Subject: Re: FRC (Chess960) and Normal Chess are both SERIOUS

Author: Theo van der Storm

Date: 11:16:50 08/23/05

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On August 22, 2005 at 16:08:18, Terry McCracken wrote:

>On August 22, 2005 at 15:20:28, Theo van der Storm wrote:
>
>>On August 22, 2005 at 13:53:50, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>On August 22, 2005 at 10:44:18, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 22, 2005 at 09:25:17, Andreas Schwartmann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 22, 2005 at 07:58:30, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>why did he thought he would win ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>wasn't he warned from mainz ?
>>>>>
>>>>>That was just FRC, not serious chess.
>>>>>
>>>>>Andreas
>>>>?
>>>>where is your ":-))" ?
>>>>
>>>>FRC is 960x serious chess.
>>>
>>>What? Are you a messenger of Fischer? FRC is played for fun not in ernest. The
>>>only advantage/disadvantage is you can't build good books easily for 960
>>>starting position, hence theory and study of the openings is out the window!
>>>
>>>It's Fairy Chess and you can't tune your engine by studying such games in
>>>standard chess.
>>>
>>>Terry
>>
>>Chess960 is not the same game as chess.
>>This is especially true in combination with the Fischer clock.
>>However, that doesn't make it "Fairy Chess".
>
>It's not classical chess, it's an aberration of classical chess. I guess it
>deserves another name than "Fairy Chess" but it's not conventional chess and
>will not replace modern chess as some claim.

I think it's fair to say it will not replace normal chess within 5 years.

>>In Mainz August 2005 Chess960 HAS BECOME a serious game
>>for both computers and humans. There are now plenty of grandmaster and IM who
>>take it seriously and all of a sudden, thanks to Richard Pijl, Stefan MK
>>and 17 other programmers (2-18), there is a substantial field of programs.
>
>Most if not all GM's and IM's, mature ones, don't take it as seriously as
>"normal" chess.

I didn't write "AS seriously",
so what you write doesn't take anything away from what I wrote.

>I suspect they never will. I suspect that FRC in computer chess is a greater
>challenge and many programers will have a great interest in FRC. Books will
>really be a tough challenge.

You suspect a lot.
Books will not be challenge and they will be much less important
then in normal chess. There will be automatically generated shallow books
for each starting position for three purposes:
1. Good quality first few moves.
2. Avoid known traps and repetition of earlier games.
   This will be a continuous evolution of the book.
3. Gain some time.

>>Apart from the speed at which it happened,
>>I cannot say I'm surprised about those programs.
>>It is troublesome for a chess programmer to find a good opening book author,
>>since there are so few of them and it's so time-consuming to prepare for good
>>opening play both on the program and the book side.
>>Thus throwing opening practice - with my science background I refuse to call it
>>theory - out of the window is very attractive to them.
>>They can focus on their real interest, i.e. programming.
>>Opening phase evaluation would be a good starter...
>>There is plenty of opportunity - no necessity! - for elegant programming,
>>because they won't get away with hard-coded constructs anymore.

I was referring to the source code.

>Without solid opening constructs, theory, then chess is incomplete.
Yes, I'm not writing about chess.

>FRC is incomplete.
It's a complete game.

>The opening phase is still chess, no less then the middlegame and
>endgame.

No, it is not due to the special castling rules.

Theo

>>I'm not suggesting to get rid of good old Chess just yet, though :-)
>
>I would hope not!
>
>Terry
>>
>>Theo van der Storm



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