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Subject: Re: Fruit 2.1 : Huge strength without TBs

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 11:38:48 08/29/05

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On August 29, 2005 at 12:05:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 29, 2005 at 11:55:17, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>
>>On August 29, 2005 at 10:05:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>The problem is that you then introduce errors.  I only probe (on the quad 875)
>>>when a capture takes the board to 5 or less pieces, and I have all 5-piece
>>>tables on that box.  I don't probe in the q-search at all, although some do and
>>>I used to.  I can't see how you could reduce that without introducing
>>>significant errors.
>>>
>>>Years ago I used to limit the depth at which I probed, to keep the NPS from
>>>dropping too far.  And saw too many mistakes where it would push the critical
>>>capture beyond the probe horizon, so that it could still think it was winning or
>>>whatever.  And it would enter a forced line because of that, thinking it was
>>>winning, when it was forcing a draw...
>>
>>1) I haven't seen this effect.
>>
>>2) Should it work as you describe, it would still happen. I looked at Crafty and
>>you limit probing to <= iteration depth, you can search a lot deeper, especially
>>with some spite checks or pawn pushes.
>>
>>3) What about 6 men?
>>
>>--
>>GCP
>
>I am using almost all 6 man endings on my dual xeon, and am not seeing anything
>worse than what I saw with 5's only.  The severe slowdowns are rare, but happen
>either way...
>
>Yes I limit the probe depth somewhat.  My question was, how could I safely limit
>it further?  Every ply it is limited has an associated risk.  I still see
>positions where the q-search thinks it is reaching a won position, but it is
>not, because I don't probe out there as some do...
>
>I tried a _bunch_ of different limiting schemes over time, including one
>"adaptive" scheme that dynamically limited the depth-to-probe-at based on the
>NPS of the search.  It would notice an excessive slow-down and reduce the depth
>at which probes were done to avoid losing too much.
>
>Turned out to cause other problems related to hashing and EGTB scores...

It seems to me that the bitbase approach is a good one.

For each of the tablebase files, convert to won/loss/drawn/broken and those can
probably be loaded into memory for a much cheaper cost.  Then, perhaps you could
probe only the pv nodes and all the root node positions which should be pretty
cheap.

Just a thought.



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