Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:56:05 10/11/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 11, 2005 at 20:27:33, Dann Corbit wrote: >On October 11, 2005 at 20:16:38, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On October 11, 2005 at 20:07:20, Dann Corbit wrote: >> >>>On October 11, 2005 at 20:02:19, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On October 11, 2005 at 19:43:16, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 11, 2005 at 17:46:02, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I apologize if I have offended anyone. >>>>>>A case of "Apples & Oranges" again.. >>>>>>Misunderstandings.. >>>>>>Stephen, and a few others here, know I seldom voice "Opinions"; >>>>>>I Post facts.. >>>>>>That way... if someone differs from the Post, they should attack the Fact, >>>>>>not the Poster. >>>>>>It doesn't always work that way... >>>>>>Everything I have Posted about Computer Chess Programs..I gave the Link >>>>>>Everything else I have Posted about Engines, Analysis Modules, is directly >>>>>>from the Chessbase Manual. It therefore refers to the Top Commercial >>>>>>Programs only.. Fritz, & Shredder >>>>>>Many of you that Program your own Engines 'tweak' them as you desire, >>>>>>and have a lot of fun. >>>>>>Players mostly use the Top Commercial Programs to assist in their play >>>>>>and improve their expertise. >>>>>>Thanks to a recent Post by Dan H. some of the confusion has been cleared up. >>>>>>Chessbase does use Mini/Max and so does indeed search every legal move >>>>>>for every position. >>>>> >>>>>There is absolutely, postively no way on God's green earth that ChessBase is >>>>>using mini/max to search anything. >>>> >>>>Why do you say that? Fritz gets to over 15 ply almost instantly. >>> >>>Then either they are computing with Tachyons or they are not using mini/max. >>> >>>>>We would see a branching factor of around 20 and a 15 ply search would take >>>>>years to finish. >>>> >>>>Please let's settle this. Give me a FEN for any Position >>>>OK? >>> >>>[D]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - >>> >>>Here are the correct node counts by ply: >>>Depth Perft value Database Verified? >>>1 20 Verified OK! >>>2 400 Verified OK! >>>3 8902 Verified OK! >>>4 197281 Verified OK! >>>5 4865609 Verified OK! >>>6 119060324 Verified OK! >>>7 3195901860 Verified OK! >>>8 84998978956 Verified OK! >>>9 2439530234167 download (Access) Verified OK! >>>10 69352859712417 download (Access) Verified OK! >>>11 2097651003696806 download (Access) Not verified >> >>Well here's a real position, one Vincent's hard ones. >>2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >>New game, >>[D]2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Fritz 5.32: >> >>1...h3-- >> +- (6.22) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >>1...Qg3! >> +- (5.69) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >>1...Qg3! >> +- (5.69) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >>1...Qg3-- >> +- (6.12) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>1...Qg3 2.Qb1+ Ka4 3.Ra8# >> +- (#2) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>1...Kb2! >> +- (15.75) Depth: 2/8 00:00:00 >>1...Kb2 2.Qf6+ Ka2 3.Qxh4 >> +- (6.12) Depth: 2/9 00:00:00 1kN >>1...Ka2! >> +- (6.09) Depth: 2/9 00:00:00 1kN >>1...Qe4! >> +- (6.06) Depth: 2/9 00:00:00 2kN >>1...Qe4-- >> +- (6.37) Depth: 3/9 00:00:00 3kN >>1...Qe4 2.Rb8+ Kc3 >> +- (6.44) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 4kN >>1...Ka2! >> +- (6.41) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 8kN >>1...Kb2! >> +- (6.37) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 10kN >>1...Kb2 2.Qb5+ Qb3 3.Qe2+ >> +- (6.28) Depth: 3/11 00:00:00 11kN >>1...Kb2-- >> +- (6.66) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 15kN >>1...Kb2 >> +- (6.66) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 18kN >>1...Qe4! >> +- (6.62) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 24kN >>1...Qe4 2.Rb8+ Kc3 3.Qc1+ >> +- (6.44) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 24kN >>1...Qe4-- >> +- (6.75) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 28kN >>1...Qe4 2.Rb8+ Kc3 3.Qc1+ Kd4 4.Rb4+ Kd5 5.Qd2+ Ke5 6.Qg5+ >> +- (15.09) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 52kN >>1...Kb2! >> +- (15.06) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 61kN >>1...Kb2 2.Rb8+ Kc3 3.Qa1+ Kd2 4.Qa2+ Kd1 5.Rb1+ Qc1 6.Qa4+ >> +- (10.56) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 70kN >>1...Kb2 2.Rb8+ Kc2 3.Qb1+ Kd2 4.Qa2+ >> +- (10.56) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 151kN >>1...Kb2-- > >At depth 6, the minimax tree has 398,319,124 nodes in it -- not 151,000. > >> +- (10.87) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 180kN >>1...Kb2 2.Rb8+ Kc2 3.Qb1+ Kd2 4.Rd8+ Kc3 5.Rc8+ Kd4 6.Qd1+ >> +- (15.19) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 1003kN >>1...Kb2-- >> +- (15.50) Depth: 8/22 00:00:01 1735kN >>1...Kb2 2.Qd1 Qe4 3.Qc1+ Kb3 4.Rb8+ Qb4 5.Qb1+ Kc3 6.Qxb4+ >> +- (15.91) Depth: 8/22 00:00:02 4025kN >>1...Kb2-- >> +- (16.22) Depth: 9/21 00:00:02 5583kN >>1...Kb2 2.Qb5+ Qb3 3.Qe5+ Kb1 4.Qe1+ Ka2 5.Qa5+ Qa3 >> +- (#7) Depth: 9/24 00:00:03 9514kN >>1...Qe4! >> +- (#8) Depth: 9/24 00:00:08 24514kN >> >>(, 11.10.2005) >E:\crafty\release>Crafty-1920.exe > >Initializing multiple threads. >System is SMP, not NUMA. >EPD Kit revision date: 1996.04.21 >unable to open book file [./books.bin]. >hash table memory = 48M bytes. >pawn hash table memory = 6M bytes. >EGTB cache memory = 32M bytes. >draw score set to 0.00 pawns. >choose from book moves randomly (using weights.) >choose from 5 best moves. >book learning enabled >result learning enabled >position learning enabled >resign after 5 consecutive moves with score < -9. >5 piece tablebase files found >13980kb of RAM used for TB indices and decompression tables > >Crafty v19.20 (1 cpus) > >White(1): new >White(1): post >White(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 > puzzling over a move to ponder. > depth time score variation (1) >Black(1): Kb2 [pondering] >Hint: Kb2 > clearing hash tables > time surplus 0.00 time limit 30.00 (3:30) > depth time score variation (1) > 8 1.23 Mat08 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 > 5. Qa3+ Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 > 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 8 32752 123 1745870 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 5. Qa3+ >Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 8-> 3.37 Mat08 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 > 5. Qa3+ Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 > 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 8 32752 337 2982614 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 5. Qa3+ >Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 9 3.79 Mat08 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 > 5. Qa3+ Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 > 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 9 32752 379 3261904 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 5. Qa3+ >Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 9-> 10.40 Mat08 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 > 5. Qa3+ Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 > 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# > 9 32752 1040 9584141 2. Qd1 Qe4 3. Qc1+ Kb3 4. Rc3+ Ka4 5. Qa3+ >Kb5 6. Rc5+ Kb6 7. Qa5+ Kb7 8. Rc7+ Kb8 9. Qa7# >easy 10 10.42 1/35? 2. Qd1 >Black(1): easy >pondering disabled. >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 1 >total moves=29 time=0.00 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 2 >total moves=897 time=0.00 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 3 >total moves=19619 time=0.00 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 4 >total moves=613468 time=0.08 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 5 >total moves=12686150 time=2.25 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 6 >total moves=398319124 time=62.39 >Black(1): setboard 2R5/8/8/8/7p/1k2q3/6P1/5Q1K b - - 0 1 >Black(1): perft 7 Ply 7 finished: Black(1): perft 7 total moves=8104332052 time=1499.53 Black(1): If after 7 plys from the position you supplied, you notice that the engine has searched 8,104,332,052 positions -- we know two things. 1. That engine is using the mini/max algorithm. 2. The author is not a good chess programmer.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.