Author: Dagh Nielsen
Date: 10:51:59 10/13/05
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 2005 at 13:21:29, Günther Simon wrote: >Well S9.1 makes the same 'blunder' at least in a fast game... >What speed has your machine? I did this analysis on my slow machine P3 650, >but as it still holds c6/depth 21 as best after 47 sec, it will hold it for at >least 14 sec on a P4 2.67 (ratio 3.3:1 measured here, P3s are relatively >faster...) > >I guess people should stop concluding too much from bullet/fast blitz sudden >death tcs, this just leads often to wrong conclusions like here. >(the result was just a random result due to thinking times of 0-3 sec from >an equal game at around move 30.) Thanks for your comment. Sorry, I did not examine the move c7-c6 in depth, I just know that when I watched the game being played, I instantly feared disaster when it chose to play c7-c6. My point is, for Black to draw this type of positions, usally a blockade is necessary (or otherwise a passer protected by the bishop). Before posting, I quickly let Fruit look at the position before c7-c6 with multiple candidate moves displayed. It also evaluated h6-h5 as equal, and in the principal variation the move c7-c6 was not included, so I just assumed black had another positionally more sound way of playing. However, it doesn't really matter if the position is lost, either before or after c7-c6. It's just one example where Fruit needlessly enters this kind of endgames because it evaluates them as equal, where they often are not. You may notice that Fritz 9 evaluated it as giving white a sligt advantage, and punished Fruit very well playing white moves leading to a win, moves that Fruit evaluates as inferior for white (if you look at each move with Fruit). The same is true in other examples against Schredder, the position is equal, but Fruit enters an exchange down endgame, evaluate them as equal, while Scredder or Fritz 9 recognizes they are inferior. My machine is an AMD Athlon 2400. I do not agree that we should not conclude anything from blitz games. These are features of the evaluation functions, and Fruit would make the same type of flawed evaluations also with longer time controls. Frankly, I have seen it happen too many times for you to simply discard the phenomenon because I present a blitz example. Also, what is blitz today, was long time control a few years ago, and what is long time control today, will be blitz in a few years, due to computers increasing their speed. If you know what you are doing, you are quite able to make conclusions about engine weaknesses from blitz games, I would even say that it is more useful to play many blitz games instead of a few long control games because you get more examples to judge from.
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