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Subject: Re: Linares '98 Topalov-Shirov ...Bh3!!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:49:00 03/10/99

Go up one level in this thread


On March 10, 1999 at 21:54:51, blass uri wrote:

>
>On March 10, 1999 at 21:16:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On March 10, 1999 at 02:33:14, Peter Kappler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - bm Bh3; id "Topalov-Shirov Linares 98";
>>>
>>>
>>>Does everybody remember this game?  It's from last year's Linares tournament,
>>>where Shirov played a shocking bishop sacrifice in the endgame and won
>>>brilliantly.  I believe that post-mortem analysis proved it was the only way to
>>>win.  (Please correct me if this is wrong)
>>>
>>>I watched this game live on ICC with dozens of others, and we were all quite
>>>impressed with Shirov's powers of calculation.
>>>
>>>This *should* be an extremely difficult problem for computers - but I'm sure
>>>somebody will tell me that Hiarcs or some other commercial program can solve it
>>>in 10 seconds.
>>>
>>>Just curious...
>>>
>>>--Peter
>>
>>
>>I ran this two ways.. First from the original position to see what crafty would
>>play with no 'urging' by me:
>>
>>               12->   6.37   2.61   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5
>>                                    gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Kd4
>>                                    Bd1 8. Ba1 f5
>>               13    11.78   2.62   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5
>>                                    gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Bb2
>>                                    Bg6 8. Kd4 Be4 9. Ba1
>>               13->  13.87   2.62   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5
>>                                    gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Bb2
>>                                    Bg6 8. Kd4 Be4 9. Ba1
>>               14    34.53   2.46   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4.
>>                                    Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2
>>               14->  45.46   2.46   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4.
>>                                    Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2
>>               15     1:08   2.46   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4.
>>                                    Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2
>>               15->   1:24   2.46   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4.
>>                                    Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2
>>               16     2:55   2.37   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ke3 a2 4. g3
>>                                    Kf5 5. Kd4 Be4 6. Kc5 Kg4 7. Bxf6 Kxg3
>>                                    8. Kd6 Kg4
>>               16->   3:59   2.37   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ke3 a2 4. g3
>>                                    Kf5 5. Kd4 Be4 6. Kc5 Kg4 7. Bxf6 Kxg3
>>                                    8. Kd6 Kg4
>>               17     8:25   2.42   1. ... a3 2. Kf2 a2 3. Ke2 Be4 4. Kf2
>>                                    Kf5 5. g3 Bb1 6. Ke3 Bc2 7. Kd4 Be4
>>                                    8. Kc5 Kg4 9. Bxf6
>>
>>
>>so it likes a3 thru any depth it might get in a real tournament setting.
>>
>>
>>I then played Bh3 and let it search for white:
>>
>>              16->  49.18   0.56   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    Bc3 Ke4 6. Ba1 Kf4 7. Bh8
>>               17     1:14   0.68   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    Bc3 Ke4 6. Ke2 Kf4 7. Kd3 Kg3 8. Bf6
>>                                    a2 9. Kc2 Kf4 10. Kb3 Kf5
>>               17->   1:22   0.68   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    Bc3 Ke4 6. Ke2 Kf4 7. Kd3 Kg3 8. Bf6
>>                                    a2 9. Kc2 Kf4 10. Kb3 Kf5
>>               18     1:56     --   2. gxh3
>>               18     2:39   0.00   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2
>>                                    Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3
>>               18->   3:26   0.00   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2
>>                                    Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3
>>               19     4:37   0.00   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2
>>                                    Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3
>>               19->   5:24   0.00   2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5.
>>                                    h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2
>>                                    Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3
>>
>>which is right interesting, because notice this runs into the 5 piece
>>tablebases and says _draw_.
>>
>>question is, now, does Bh3 really make sense?  This seems to say "no".
>>
>>interesting...
>Did you let crafty to play against itself.
>after 2.gxh3 Kf5 3.Kf2 Ke4 4.Bxf6
>crafty16.5 as an engine for Junior5(no tablebases) prefers 4...d4 with
>evaluation -6.01 at depth 18 and -6.02 at depth 19
>
>I believe that crafty needs more time to see the win after Bh3.
>
>I do not remember the game but I remember that I analyzed it with a computer and
>did not see a draw for white.
>
>Uri


I will check deeper.. but note that after Bh3, it reaches the endgame databases
and with white on move, it claims white can force a dead draw.  I don't see any
reason it would change to let black do more, after forcing a path to a tablebase
draw...

And note that crafty is using _all_ the 5 piece files we have, which covers
a lot of territory.  But I'll let it run a ways longer forcing the 'drawing'
white move first to see if black can 'improve'.




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