Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:49:00 03/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On March 10, 1999 at 21:54:51, blass uri wrote: > >On March 10, 1999 at 21:16:33, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On March 10, 1999 at 02:33:14, Peter Kappler wrote: >> >>> >>>8/8/4kpp1/3p1b2/p6P/2B5/6P1/6K1 b - - bm Bh3; id "Topalov-Shirov Linares 98"; >>> >>> >>>Does everybody remember this game? It's from last year's Linares tournament, >>>where Shirov played a shocking bishop sacrifice in the endgame and won >>>brilliantly. I believe that post-mortem analysis proved it was the only way to >>>win. (Please correct me if this is wrong) >>> >>>I watched this game live on ICC with dozens of others, and we were all quite >>>impressed with Shirov's powers of calculation. >>> >>>This *should* be an extremely difficult problem for computers - but I'm sure >>>somebody will tell me that Hiarcs or some other commercial program can solve it >>>in 10 seconds. >>> >>>Just curious... >>> >>>--Peter >> >> >>I ran this two ways.. First from the original position to see what crafty would >>play with no 'urging' by me: >> >> 12-> 6.37 2.61 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5 >> gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Kd4 >> Bd1 8. Ba1 f5 >> 13 11.78 2.62 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5 >> gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Bb2 >> Bg6 8. Kd4 Be4 9. Ba1 >> 13-> 13.87 2.62 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. g4 Bd1 4. h5 >> gxh5 5. gxh5 Bxh5 6. Ke3 a2 7. Bb2 >> Bg6 8. Kd4 Be4 9. Ba1 >> 14 34.53 2.46 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4. >> Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2 >> 14-> 45.46 2.46 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4. >> Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2 >> 15 1:08 2.46 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4. >> Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2 >> 15-> 1:24 2.46 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ba1 Kf5 4. >> Ke3 Be4 5. g3 a2 6. Kf2 Bc2 >> 16 2:55 2.37 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ke3 a2 4. g3 >> Kf5 5. Kd4 Be4 6. Kc5 Kg4 7. Bxf6 Kxg3 >> 8. Kd6 Kg4 >> 16-> 3:59 2.37 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 Bc2 3. Ke3 a2 4. g3 >> Kf5 5. Kd4 Be4 6. Kc5 Kg4 7. Bxf6 Kxg3 >> 8. Kd6 Kg4 >> 17 8:25 2.42 1. ... a3 2. Kf2 a2 3. Ke2 Be4 4. Kf2 >> Kf5 5. g3 Bb1 6. Ke3 Bc2 7. Kd4 Be4 >> 8. Kc5 Kg4 9. Bxf6 >> >> >>so it likes a3 thru any depth it might get in a real tournament setting. >> >> >>I then played Bh3 and let it search for white: >> >> 16-> 49.18 0.56 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> Bc3 Ke4 6. Ba1 Kf4 7. Bh8 >> 17 1:14 0.68 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> Bc3 Ke4 6. Ke2 Kf4 7. Kd3 Kg3 8. Bf6 >> a2 9. Kc2 Kf4 10. Kb3 Kf5 >> 17-> 1:22 0.68 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Kf4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> Bc3 Ke4 6. Ke2 Kf4 7. Kd3 Kg3 8. Bf6 >> a2 9. Kc2 Kf4 10. Kb3 Kf5 >> 18 1:56 -- 2. gxh3 >> 18 2:39 0.00 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2 >> Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3 >> 18-> 3:26 0.00 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2 >> Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3 >> 19 4:37 0.00 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2 >> Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3 >> 19-> 5:24 0.00 2. gxh3 Kf5 3. Kf2 Ke4 4. Bxf6 a3 5. >> h5 gxh5 6. Ba1 d4 7. Ke2 h4 8. Kd2 >> Kf4 9. Bxd4 Kg3 10. Bc3 Kxh3 >> >>which is right interesting, because notice this runs into the 5 piece >>tablebases and says _draw_. >> >>question is, now, does Bh3 really make sense? This seems to say "no". >> >>interesting... >Did you let crafty to play against itself. >after 2.gxh3 Kf5 3.Kf2 Ke4 4.Bxf6 >crafty16.5 as an engine for Junior5(no tablebases) prefers 4...d4 with >evaluation -6.01 at depth 18 and -6.02 at depth 19 > >I believe that crafty needs more time to see the win after Bh3. > >I do not remember the game but I remember that I analyzed it with a computer and >did not see a draw for white. > >Uri I will check deeper.. but note that after Bh3, it reaches the endgame databases and with white on move, it claims white can force a dead draw. I don't see any reason it would change to let black do more, after forcing a path to a tablebase draw... And note that crafty is using _all_ the 5 piece files we have, which covers a lot of territory. But I'll let it run a ways longer forcing the 'drawing' white move first to see if black can 'improve'.
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