Author: Ross Boyd
Date: 00:35:03 01/29/06
Go up one level in this thread
On January 29, 2006 at 03:14:16, Ross Boyd wrote: >On January 29, 2006 at 02:50:36, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On January 28, 2006 at 17:43:37, Ross Boyd wrote: >> >>>On January 28, 2006 at 16:27:48, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>Mark Twain once said.. "There are Lies, Damn Lies and .. Statistics" >>>>It's hard to disprove Statistics, they are what they are. >>>>Four hundred years of Chess Theory & Millions of games played have proven >>>>that White has a significant advantage with the first move. >>>>Black cannot overcome this, in fact Black cannot even equalize. >>>>Whites Overall Performance is 55% compared to Blacks 45% >>>>The error factor is insignificant. >>> >>>>Whichever Human or Computer plays the Openings by ECO Classification >>>>that are better for White will Win. >>>>Whichever Human or Computer plays the Openings by ECO Classification >>>>that are better for Black will win. >>> >>>Don't you mean they will improve their win/loss percentage? >>Yes Thanks.. >>> >>>>It's really that simple. >>>> >>>>So what does Testing Engines against Engines Prove? >>> >>>Not sure what exactly you're saying here. >>> >>>Testing engines vs engines is just a way of gauging relative strength. Rigorous >>>testing against humans is prohibitive time-wise and there are other variables... >>>humans have 'off' days which can skew the results... a computer sparring partner >>>can be relied on to perform consistently. >>Exactly, thanks. >>> >>>If you mean in the context of Opening books, its better to test using a set of >>>standard balanced positions so that it is raw strength we are measuring rather >>>than how good an opening book is. >>Yes, Opening books are very shallow really.. >>> >>>Tuning the engine's opening book is just another step in an engine's >>>development. >>Yes, especially in Engine vs Engine games. >>> >>>Ross >> >> Whites Overall Performance is 55% compared to Blacks 45% >> These seem to be the Magic numbers. >> Millions of games played confirm this. >> What would you conclude from this? > >Obviously White has an opening initiative that, on average, enables white to >score better than black. > >Having 'the move' is a definite advantage... except in the case of zugzwang. I >believe commercial Fruit gives a bonus for the side to move. I experimented with >this kind of bonus myself but didn't see any measurable improvement. Still, it >stands to reason that if you want to differentiate between two identical >positions with the only difference being the side-to-move then a good eval would >value 'having the move' higher.... (except zugzwang positions of course) > >In chessic terms I'd give a bonus for being on move as a 1/5 of a pawn... but >I'm just a club-standard player.... and it would differ depending on the phase >of the game... > >What conclusion do you draw from White's opening advantage? > >Ross An additional point in connection with engine-v-engine testing. It is pointless to develop an engine by concentrating _solely_ on opening play. If your engine gets the advantage out of the opening you then have to hope that it can convert that advantage into a win. That's why we test using Nunn positions... because we are tuning our engines to handle the middle and endgame well enough to preserve whatever advantage we have gained. Later, when we are satisfied that we have instilled sufficient strength in our engine to push home an advantage (or on the other hand defend tenaciously) then we concentrate on using opening lines that maximise their chances by making the most of their unique tactical/positional strengths. For example, I believe Fruit loves either side of a Kings Indian... but my engine doesn't... it scores better in classical Q Pawn openings. Coincidentally, thats my personal preference... so we see an engine is often a sort of pseudo-caricature of its author... I wonder what positions Fabien prefers? ... but that's beside the point. Ross
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