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Subject: Re: I need advise !

Author: James Robertson

Date: 12:08:42 04/19/99

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On April 19, 1999 at 14:59:29, Roberto Waldteufel wrote:

>On April 19, 1999 at 14:14:37, James Robertson wrote:
>
>>
>>>I must disagree with you. Firstly, speed is critical for chess. How to get
>>>maximum speed? - use hand-optimized assembler. That is NOT lunacy, it is plain
>>>common sense. It might be difficult, but if the results are better it certainly
>>>does not make it mad. Much of my program is written in assembler, so I shall be
>>>expecting a visit from the men in the long white coats soon!
>>
>>You miss my point. Obviously, it cannot be complete lunacy, as Franz Morsch
>>actually did it, and he has one of the most successful programs in the world. I
>>was talking tongue in cheek. Several speed-critical functions in my program are
>>written in hand-coded assembler too.
>>
>>But, whatever it is, it cannot be common sense. As far as I know, Fritz and
>>Rebel are the only PC programs written in assembler. Both are commercial, and
>>apparently, Ed Schroeder had enough of assembler, as he announced he was
>>translating his program into C++ (very wise, if you ask me).
>>
>Well, I guess what I mean is "if you can do it, then it makes sense to". It is
>the perfectionist's choice - if you refuse to compromise efficiency under any
>circumstances, then assembler it has to be.

Yeah... but for me to try to do it, it would be lunacy. :)

>Obviously it is much easier to use a
>high level language, but the easiest way does not produce the absolute best
>performance. It is no surprise to me that the existing assembler chess programs
>are among the best.
>
>>>
>>>Second, Visual Basic is more than 20 times slower than the best commercial >Basic
>>>compilers
>>
>>Yes, but I wasn't talking about Basic; I was talking about VB.
>>
>>>- if you are going to talk about Basic, at least see what a modern
>>>efficient (as opposed to virtual anything!) Basic compiler can do. There are
>>>Basic compilers now that will compile small, fast executables to run under Win9x
>>>and Win NT, and they include a full 32-bit in-line assembler as well - blows the
>>>wheels of Visul C, and C++.
>>
>>The Basic compilers are faster than VC++? I haven't heard this before; perhaps
>>you could give me some websites for more information? I am also a good Basic
>>programmer, and if it is faster.....
>>
>>James
>>
>
>Yes, it is faster, and you are not alone in not having heard. Check out the
>PowerBasic web site at http://powerbasic.com/
>For 32-bit Windows stuff, you will want either PBDLL or PBCC compilers (I use
>both). In my experience, their products are very good. There are some
>discussions about PowerBasic speed compared to other compilers on the BBS there
>- see for yourself. If you like the Basic language, then these 32-bit Windows
>compilers are really great. PBDLL is more general in its use, whereas PBCC is
>much easier to use and very much more similar in its syntax to traditional
>basics than VB, but only compiles console (ie text) applications, although I did
>manage to design a passable chess display with it. With PBDLL you get the full
>graphics capabilities of Windows, but you need to know a lot more about the
>Windows API.
>
>The general consensus among programmers who use these compilers as well as other
>compilers (like VB, Virtual C and C++) is that PowerBasic is faster, especially
>compared to the crawling VB. Compared to straight C the difference is only very
>small, but seems to be in Basic's favour. Many of these programmers are people
>who use PB at home, but are obliged to use something else at work.
>
>Best wishes,
>Roberto

Cool... I'll check this stuff out. I like C++ syntax better, but that may be
just because I know it very very well. :)

James



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