Author: Geo Disher
Date: 13:50:25 03/08/06
Go up one level in this thread
Very Interesting. Rybka finds axb5 as best after 17 hours New game r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Rybka 1.0 Beta 32-bit: 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.57) Depth: 4 00:00:00 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.57) Depth: 4 00:00:00 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.82) Depth: 5 00:00:00 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (2.06) Depth: 6 00:00:00 5kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.73) Depth: 7 00:00:00 10kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.83) Depth: 8 00:00:00 13kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.73) Depth: 9 00:00:00 17kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.95) Depth: 10 00:00:00 37kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.86) Depth: 11 00:00:01 44kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.77) Depth: 12 00:00:02 116kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.68) Depth: 13 00:00:03 199kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.65) Depth: 14 00:00:04 298kN 1.Qb6 Rd8 2.Be4 Be7 3.axb5 Rd6 4.Qa5 Bd8 5.Qa4 a5 +- (1.63) Depth: 15 00:00:05 450kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.65) Depth: 16 00:00:10 1369kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.65) Depth: 17 00:00:46 5181kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.55) Depth: 18 00:01:54 12780kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.75) Depth: 19 00:03:47 26970kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.70) Depth: 20 00:06:27 46469kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.59) Depth: 21 00:12:58 89868kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 e4 4.Qa7 Qe5 5.Qe3 Re8 +- (1.53) Depth: 22 00:32:35 215285kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 Rab8 3.Qxa6 ± (1.39) Depth: 23 01:11:34 454452kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 2.axb5 +- (1.52) Depth: 24 02:27:32 937211kN 1.Qb6 Qe7 ± (1.26) Depth: 25 07:55:22 2876850kN 1.axb5 axb5 ± (1.28) Depth: 25 17:10:17 2876850kN (, 08.03.2006) On March 03, 2006 at 22:39:47, Lar Mader wrote: >Ok, I know this topic has been discussed a lot (beaten to death?!), but I am >still curious about this move: > >Game 2, IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch >Deep Blue played > 36.axb5 > >I know that the move 37.Be4 is a move that is found by some current chess >engines. > >But this 36.axb5, to my knowledge, is never selected by current chess engines. > >I can't duplicate this move on Fritz 9 or Deep Shredder 9. Below I provide the >analysis of Deep Shredder 9 running for 2 days, and Fritz 9 running for 1 day. > >Has anyone been able to duplicate this move with a current chess program? I'm >especially curious about Rybka, since it seems to find some interesting moves. > >Here is the position, full game is below. > [D]r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 36 > >Here is the link for anyone who wants to read the Deep Blue logs. > http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/watch/html/c.html > >These logs, by the way, came out roughly 3 years after Deep Blue was dismantled. > Hmmmm... am I the only one that thinks that that is perhaps a little odd. So, >let's see... the project is over, Deep Blue was dismantled immediately, and then >they just let these logs gather dust for 3 years, while Kasparov ranted and >raved about them cheating? Then they cough 'em up out of the "blue". Why and >how would this happen? Conspiracy theorists want to know :) > >According to these logs (if I understand them), Deep Blue spent almost 7 minutes >on this move. They claimed that Deep Blue calculated a peak of 200 million >nodes/sec, but that realistically it was more like 130 million nodes per second >on average, or some such. > >In 7 minutes (using the 130 mN/s figure), this would be roughly 55 billion nodes >considered, perhaps. > >In the analysis below: >After 21 hours, Fritz 9 had considered around 74 billion nodes. >After 47 hours, Deep Shredder 9 had considered 65 billion nodes. > >So in principle, both of these engines did at least as much work as Deep Blue, >on this move. Yes, the trees searched certainly looked much different, but the >amount of work was comparable, i.e. the speed of deep blue has been taken out of >the equation. Now it's just a question of search and eval quality. > >I have a hard time believing that the position evaluation of Deep Blue was >better than modern eval functions, and modern search algorithms have improved >tremendously. > >Thus, my point is: I would think that Fritz and Deep Shredder would consider a >more optimal tree of nodes than Deep Blue, given algorithmic advances, and with >a better eval function. i.e., for the same amount of work, I would expect a >better result from Fritz or Shredder than Deep Blue could produce. > >But they don't choose axb5. This really seems odd. It's especially odd given >that Deep Blue's choice of axb5 dovetails nicely with move 37.Be4, which isn't >typically found easily at this earlier point in the search (from move 36). > >By the way, it should be noted that Shredder considered axb5 the 2nd best move, >and Fritz considered it the 4th best move. > >Here is the whole game, and the engine analysis follows below: > >[Event "IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch"] >[Site "New York, NY USA"] >[Date "1997.05.04"] >[Round "2"] >[White "Deep Blue"] >[Black "Kasparov, Garry"] >[Opening "Ruy Lopez: closed, Smyslov defense"] >[ECO "C93"] >[Result "1-0"] > >1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 >8.c3 O-O 9.h3 h6 10.d4 Re8 11.Nbd2 Bf8 12.Nf1 Bd7 13.Ng3 Na5 14.Bc2 c5 >15.b3 Nc6 16.d5 Ne7 17.Be3 Ng6 18.Qd2 Nh7 19.a4 Nh4 20.Nxh4 Qxh4 >21.Qe2 Qd8 22.b4 Qc7 23.Rec1 c4 24.Ra3 Rec8 25.Rca1 Qd8 26.f4 Nf6 >27.fxe5 dxe5 28.Qf1 Ne8 29.Qf2 Nd6 30.Bb6 Qe8 31.R3a2 Be7 32.Bc5 Bf8 >33.Nf5 Bxf5 34.exf5 f6 35.Bxd6 Bxd6 36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 Rxa2 >38.Qxa2 Qd7 39.Qa7 Rc7 40.Qb6 Rb7 41.Ra8+ Kf7 42.Qa6 Qc7 43.Qc6 Qb6+ >44.Kf1 Rb8 45.Ra6 1-0 > > >Deep Blue - Kasparov,G, IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch 1997 >r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Fritz 9: > >36.Qb6 Qd7 37.axb5 Rcb8 38.Qe3 Qxb5 39.Be4 Re8 > +- (1.46) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 53kN >36.Qb6 Qd7 37.axb5 Rcb8 38.Qe3 Bc7 39.Kh2 Bb6 40.Qg3 Qxb5 > ± (1.36) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 105kN >36.Qb6! > +- (1.64) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 220kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rcb8 39.Be4 Bd6 40.axb5 Rxb5 41.Kf2 Kf8 > +- (1.80) Depth: 9/24 00:00:00 369kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rcb8 39.Be4 Bd6 40.axb5 Rxb5 41.Kf2 Kf8 > +- (1.80) Depth: 10/20 00:00:00 410kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rab8 39.axb5 axb5 40.Ra6 Rd8 41.Be4 Bb6+ 42.Kf1 >f5 43.e7 > +- (1.84) Depth: 11/26 00:00:01 745kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rab8 39.axb5 axb5 40.Kf1 Bd6 41.Ke2 Kf8 42.Be4 >Ke7 43.Ra7+ > +- (1.68) Depth: 12/33 00:00:03 2289kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rab8 39.Kf1 Kf8 40.axb5 axb5 41.Ra7 Rb6 42.Be4 >Rd6 43.Ke2 > +- (1.73) Depth: 13/31 00:00:06 5781kN >36.Qb6 Bc7 37.Qe6+ Qxe6 38.fxe6 Rab8 39.Kf1 Kf8 40.axb5 axb5 41.Be4 Bd6 42.Ke2 >Ke7 43.g3 Rc7 44.Ke3 > +- (1.71) Depth: 14/33 00:00:16 14624kN >36.Qb6! > +- (2.00) Depth: 15/40 00:00:37 35526kN >36.Qb6 Rd8 37.Be4 Kh7 38.Qc6 Qxc6 39.dxc6 Rab8 40.axb5 axb5 41.Ra7 Rdc8 42.Kf2 >Bc7 43.Kf3 Kg8 > +- (1.81) Depth: 16/39 00:01:15 70739kN >36.Qb6-- > +- (1.53) Depth: 17/41 00:02:48 159264kN >36.Qb6 Rd8 37.Be4 > +- (1.53) Depth: 17/41 00:03:01 172179kN >36.Qb6-- > ± (1.25) Depth: 18/55 00:11:33 662396kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Bc7 40.Ra6 Bb6+ 41.Rxb6 > ± (1.24) Depth: 18/58 00:13:25 772277kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qh2+ 42.Kf1 Bf4 >43.Qg1 Qg3 44.Qf2 Qh2 > ± (1.26) Depth: 19/46 00:24:46 1428950kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qf2 axb5 39.Be4 Qd8 40.Kh2 Ra8 > ± (1.03) Depth: 20/52 00:41:03 2373942kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qf2 axb5 39.Be4 Qd8 40.Kh2 Ra8 41.Ra7 Rxa7 42.Qxa7 >Rc7 43.Qe3 > ± (1.04) Depth: 21/52 01:57:43 6836329kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qf2 axb5 39.Be4 Qd8 40.Kh2 Ra8 41.Ra7 Rxa7 42.Qxa7 >Rc7 43.Qe3 > ± (1.04) Depth: 22/53 03:45:33 13112880kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qf2 axb5 39.Be4 Qd8 40.Kh2 Ra8 41.Ra7 Rxa7 42.Qxa7 >Rb8 43.Ra6 Bf8 > ± (1.04) Depth: 23/83 07:40:14 26775814kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qf2 axb5 39.Be4 Qd8 40.Kh2 Ra8 > ± (1.04) Depth: 24/80 21:12:21 74891917kN > >(Mader, 01.03.2006) > > > >Deep Blue - Kasparov,G, IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch 1997 >r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Shredder 9: > >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 18kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 18kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 18kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 10/14 00:00:00 52kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 11/17 00:00:00 108kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 12/12 00:00:00 225kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 13/13 00:00:01 453kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 14/14 00:00:01 847kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 15/16 00:00:03 1552kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 16/17 00:00:07 3106kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 17/27 00:00:10 4952kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 18/18 00:00:19 9111kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 19/24 00:00:32 15072kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 20/20 00:01:03 29392kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.14) Depth: 21/28 00:01:49 51096kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.39) Depth: 22/52 00:10:15 269665kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (1.39) Depth: 22/52 00:16:24 418189kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Bxe4 Re8 40.Kf1 Qe5 41.Bf3 Rbd8 42.Ra3 >Qxf5 43.Qa7 Qf4 > ± (1.35) Depth: 23/59 00:29:57 753619kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qxf5 42.Ba4 Re7 >43.Bc6 Qe5 44.Ra7 Qh2+ 45.Kf1 f5 46.Rxe7 > ± (1.17) Depth: 24/57 01:07:17 1661960kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qxf5 42.Rd1 Qe5 >43.Ba4 Qh2+ 44.Kf1 Re7 45.Bb5 f5 46.Bxc4 > ± (0.95) Depth: 25/59 02:20:12 3428674kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qxf5 42.Rd1 Qe5 >43.Ba4 Qh2+ 44.Kf1 Re7 45.Bb5 f5 46.Bxc4 > ± (1.14) Depth: 26/61 04:16:25 6241570kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qxf5 42.Ba4 Re7 >43.Bc6 Qe5 44.Ra8 f5 45.Rxb8+ Bxb8 46.Ra8 Rf7 > ± (1.00) Depth: 27/61 07:07:21 10324389kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qxa6 e4 39.Qa7 Qe5 40.Qe3 Re8 41.b6 Qh2+ 42.Kf1 Bf4 >43.Qg1 Qg3 44.Qf2 Qh2 45.Ke2 e3 46.Qf3 Be5 47.Ra3 Rxb6 > ± (1.04) Depth: 28/64 12:29:26 17947658kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 > ± (0.79) Depth: 29/67 21:34:29 30468028kN >36.Qb6 Qe7 37.axb5 Rab8 38.Qe3 axb5 39.Ra6 Qd8 > ² (0.52) Depth: 29/70 47:05:07 65855136kN > >(Mader, 03.03.2006)
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