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Subject: Re: fritz once again leads from the front in the fight against the human rac

Author: Peter Kappler

Date: 11:37:08 07/02/99

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On July 02, 1999 at 12:34:56, Paul Richards wrote:

>On July 02, 1999 at 02:43:37, Peter Kappler wrote:
>
>>>I have both F5.32 and Hiarcs 7.32; I like them both; I do not know which
>>>one will ultimately score higher on SSDF; but those engine v engine results
>>>prove nothing.
>>>
>>
>>Prove nothing??  Absurd.
>
>Not at all.
>


While perhaps not as optimal as a 2-computer match, I think it's a gross
overstatement to suggest that a single-computer match is worthless.


>
>>>Nobody is alleging an anti-Fritz conspiracy. The results are dubious;
>>>that's why he is saying it.
>>>
>>>eric
>>
>>
>>You both are *saying* this, neither of you are *explaining* why.
>
>Probably because we both assumed you had also read recent threads like "Some
>thoughts on engine vs. engine testing".  In a nutshell this sort of testing is
>unreliable because we know there are some problems with running both engines on
>one machine, and we can infer that there are an unknown number of similar
>possible issues.  For example, the time allocation code for a program will be
>based on the assumption that the program thinks while the opponent's clock is
>running, which is not the case in engine-engine testing.  Correctly allocating
>time for making moves is non-trivial, and it's unlikely that programmers design
>or test for engine-engine conditions.  Hash tables are another issue, and some
>of the machines used for these engine-engine tests don't have enough RAM to
>allow optimal hash tables for both programs.  We also don't have the source code
>for the Chessbase interface to know what other resource allocation issues there
>might be.  In short the gold standard for such tests is clearly running the
>programs on two separate machines.  When this is done Hiarcs and Fritz appear
>very close in strength.  As a result it's not impressive when someone does an
>engine-engine test that shows one to be far superior to the other, and even less
>impressive when they keep doing it despite being told why single machine
>engine-engine tests cannot be taken seriously.


Thanks for the explanation.  I agree that a 2-computer match is the optimal test
environment.  I don't agree that a single computer match is worthless - I think
it is still an excellent indicator of the relative playing strength of the
programs.

It would be interesting to play ~200 games with each setup and compare the
results.

--Peter







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